Whitley P4963 marked 'MS' ? Anyone have AIR 81/764 photographed please?

[Observer1940]

Hello

I have the Accident Card dated 4 June 1940, 10 Squadron, but wondered if anyone has the file photographed / copied?

Accident investigation was one of those marked 'MS'.

Many thanks, Mark

[Alex Smart]

Hello,
AIR81/764 from http://www.rafcommands.com/

Sergeant D Donald,
Flying Officer A S Phillips,
Flying Officer G L C Bagshaw: injured.
Pilot Officer A H Fields: report of death.
Leading Aircraftman R Nicholson: uninjured.

Whitley P4963 force landed near Wattisham, Suffolk, 4 June 1940

And
crashlanded ‘Lower Manor Farm’ Battisford 2 miles WSW of Needham Market/Suffolk - 03.45.

Alex

[Alex Smart]

Extra,
Fully explained in BCL vol 1 revised, page 142.
Alex

[Observer1940]

Hello Alex and All

My edition of Chorley is 1995, I don't have the updated copy.
I have the information you posted and AM1180, thank you.

MS
I'm trying to work out why some 1940 accident numbers on AM1180 accident cards are marked 'MS'. One later 1940 card has "MS (Incomplete)".

On a January 1943 Whitley Accident Card the "MS" box, indicated the investigation was part of "Misc 27" (covering a number of accidents due to the same pyrotechnical cause, in a single AIB Report Misc No.27).

This might suggest that "MS" on cards in 1940 meant that the accident was also covered by a Miscellaneous Report. I have names of Misc Reports found so far.

Before visiting TNA again, I was hoping someone might have the AIR 81/764 file photographed for P4963 revealing a clue to the meaning of the MS reference, or a reference in the file to an MS report perhaps?

Mark

[BC]

Mark, I presume you have seen the photo of the crash? Back in the 70s I was given two postcard pictures of the incident by a man who did guard duty on this aircraft. It whacked into a large oak tree then hit a barn, crushing the nose.

Bob C

[Observer1940]

Hello Bob

Thank you very much for getting in touch. No I have not, but sent you a PM and be most interested in scans please?

My Grandfather's later 1940 loss was also an 'MS' Inquiry, but no concrete explanation as to why. The RAF Admin book also appears to indicate that an MS Form is a non-standard Form, as opposed to a numbered Form, [such as a printed Form 765c where certain information about an RAF Flying Accident is required to be completed].

Regards Mark

[Observer1940]

Photographed most of the file.

Regarding Whitley P4963 there are the two Teleprinted Casualty Signal serials mentioned on the AM1180. An additional Casualty Signal (marked as folio '3A') received at 1 [pm] as it is stamped 4th June 1940 with the clock hand pointing a 1 O'clock, is handwritten in pencil.

There is no Form 765c on AM1180 and none in the file. No Court of Inquiry Form. Only a letter from No. 10 Squadron.

The port engine cut-out on the return flight and the Whitley was flown back with only the starboard engine running, mentioned in paragraph 3

Paragraph 4. states:-
"4. On arrival over Wattisham - the pilot was informed when he was directly over the aerodrome - fog was present and visibility was bad, and the aerodrome was not visible from the air."

Paragraph 5 refers to the aircraft flying on and crashing at Battisford (Suffolk). But looking at an OS map Battisford is only a short distance away from the aerodrome at RAF Wattisham.

On the AM 1180 it is in the Landing 'Cause' grouping.

Sounds like ZZ Landing procedure, but not enough power to keep the Whitley airborne?

The writing on the AM1180 is hardly readable due to the handwriting style, but it appears to say "Got back over home aerodrome", so it seems they were heading for Wattisham after the Op. Nowhere does it say whether they should have been diverted or not?

"Camera" on board
Just out of interest, there was a "Camera" on board listed in the Aircraft Equipment at (F) on the Casualty Signal.

Mark