Odd Bf 109 G-10 found.

[Micke D]

Saw this on HyperScale forum. What do you think this says about the G-10s not being rebuilt from earlier models? I know this isn't proof in any way, just interested to see what the 109 experts think about it.

"Hi all,
Recently, an Erla Bf 109 G-10 W.Nr. 490144 was recovered in Northern Germany. It was marked with a "Yellow 7" and had a yellow horizontal bar on the rear fuselage. One thing that surprised the recovery team is it had a DB 605 D motor not a AS engine. They are convinced the fuselage was originally a G-6. Several layers of camouflage were found, the first was black, the final color scheme was light green under sides with RLM 75/RLM 74 on top. At some time there was a yellow fuselage band. The fin an rudder were wooden and the stabilizer unit was metal. Some of the color was in remarkable condition. The wheels and tires were the standard G-6 660 X 160. The pilot apparently had bailed out. As yet they don't know the unit the a/c was from.
Cheers , Jerry" (Crandall)

[ChristianK]

Hmm..originally black camouflage and a G-6 fuselage? Sounds like this plane perhaps had originally been a G-6/AS or something of ENJGr/EJG 2, later modified to a G-10 and repainted..

Cheers,
Christian

[Rasmussen]

Originally Posted by ChristianK

Hmm..originally black camouflage and a G-6 fuselage? Sounds like this plane perhaps had originally been a G-6/AS or something of ENJGr/EJG 2, later modified to a G-10 and repainted..

Please not again the "rebuilt theory" ---the Erla factory had the order to use all the G-6/U2-tubes not used more in G-6 production because the production of this version was stopped. So this tubes weren't rebuilt because never were used before. And why the surprise because of the DB605D? This was the normal engine of the Erla G-10 from begin of delivery - the AS engine was an rare exception --- so the DB 605AS would be an surprise.

And ... the a/c was delivered on 30./31.10.1944 to Luftwaffe units. If the loss was on 26.11.1944 would be an use in a EJG, then an rebuilt from G-6/AS to a G-10 and a supply to a new unit (all in all 3 weeks) a very, very hard thing ...

[Mermet]

Originally Posted by Rasmussen

Please not again the "rebuilt theory" ---the Erla factory had the order to use all the G-6/U2-tubes not used more in G-6 production because the production of this version was stopped. So this tubes weren't rebuilt because never were used before. And why the surprise because of the DB605D? This was the normal engine of the Erla G-10 from begin of delivery - the AS engine was an rare exception --- so the DB 605AS would be an surprise.

And ... the a/c was delivered on 30./31.10.1944 to Luftwaffe units. If the loss was on 26.11.1944 would be an use in a EJG, then an rebuilt from G-6/AS to a G-10 and a supply to a new unit (all in all 3 weeks) a very, very hard thing ...

Hi,
Yes, I agree.
From the files of the Luftwaffe no G-10s at all were modified G-6s.
There has been a confusion in the past time because G-6 fuselages were used to produce G-10s. It's not surprising. Stocks of G-6 fuselages were not to be destroyed when it was decided to produce G-10s. Those fuselages used by Mtt-AG, WNF or Erla were brand new ones fitted with DB 605 D engines. By WNF the wheels and tyres were of 690x190 dimensions with large bulge on apper surface and by Mtt-AG who produced only 120 the wheels were 660x160 with the small bulges. Erla-Leipzig named their G-10s as "Bastard-Flugeuge" because they produced two distinct series of this plane. Planes of the WNr series 490xxx were the first to be delivered with WNr 490130 or 190135 at the end of September 1944. That should be the explanation for the presence of RLM 74 ans 75 colors on top. The green color on undersurfaces is probably an oxidized RLM 76. It's possible also that 490144 was used by several units before it crashed.
Concerning the engine of 490144 it's not a surprise because it must be kept in mind that all G-10s were fitted with DB 605 D engine when leaving the assembly line. During their life, when it occured that the original engine was out of service they can be refitted with DB 605 ASB/C by the Reparatur-Industrie such as the Erla-Antwerpen center. The Reparatur-Industrie received only DB 605 ASB/C engines. The engine producers repaired the DB 605 Ds which were then delivered to main airplane manufacturers that fit them to new airplanes. That was also the case for the Bf 109 K-4 but until today we have found no wrecks of a DB 605 ASB/C-equiped K-4...

JCM

[Rasmussen]

Originally Posted by Mermet

Concerning the engine of 490144 it's not a surprise because it must be kept in mind that all G-10s were fitted with DB 605 D engine when leaving the assembly line. During their life, when it occured that the original engine was out of service they can be refitted with DB 605 ASB/C by the Reparatur-Industrie such as the Erla-Antwerpen center. The Reparatur-Industrie received only DB 605 ASB/C engines.

This is not correct ... at least regarding Erla. The G-10 with DB 605AS from Erla got their engines in the factory in Leipzig (with an very high probability - 99 % I would say). Erla delivered an small number of G-14/AS but the delivery was stopped before the batch was completed. So they had some DB 605AS "in Reserve"... this is the solution for Erla "G-10/AS" ...

Incidentally ... the Erla-Antwerpen center was disintegrated on September 02, 1944, long before the first G-10 serial a/c's were delivered.

[Jerry Crandall]

All I did was post the information that was forwarded to me. I didn't edit condone or criticize their remarks. Why don't you pass on your information to the recovery team, I'm sure they would be interested in your comments. After seeing color photos I can confirm the yellow number and RLM 75/ RLM74 on the fuselage.
Jerry

[Mermet]

Originally Posted by Rasmussen

This is not correct ... at least regarding Erla. The G-10 with DB 605AS from Erla got their engines in the factory in Leipzig (with an very high probability - 99 % I would say). Erla delivered an small number of G-14/AS but the delivery was stopped before the batch was completed. So they had some DB 605AS "in Reserve"... this is the solution for Erla "G-10/AS" ...

The Erla-Leipzig archives are complete and we found no G-10/AS delivered to the Luftwaffe. 123 Bf 109 G-14/AS were produced among G-14s in the WNr batches 460330 to 460670 (50) and 461100 to 461999 (73). Maybe some G-10s had a DB 605 AS engine but they were officially designated G-10, not G-10/AS.

JCM

[RolandF]

http://www.kreiszeitung.de/lokales/n...n-6705484.html

[ChristianK]

Thanks for the link Roland! So the place is Altenbücken, about halfway between Bremen and Hannover, possible date November 26th, 1944...

[ChristianK]

Hey, my "rebuilt" theory stemmed from the "black camo" remark in the original posting only. I'm innocent!