Bf110 crashplace, need help. 35Ost63533

[Evgeny Velichko]

Hallo gentlemen.

We found a Bf110, in Russia, NE from Ponyri.
Grid is 35 Ost 63533.

It was a recce aircraft, E-3, F-3 or G-3.
Optics for 50/30 was found.




What Aufklarung losses could correspond with this loss?

[Matti Salonen]

Possibly this:
1943-05-04, 3./NAGr. 4 (NAGr. 4), Bf 110 G-3, 4824, L8+AL, Bei Ponyri, westlich Beresowyj (Pl.Qu. 63/58 C5)
Flugzeugführer Olt Klatt, Ernst-Günther, gefangen
Bordfunker Lt Kregel, Heinrich, gefangen
Bordschütze Uffz Heerdt, Waldemar, gefangen
Notlanduing infolge Jägerbeschuß. Bruch 100 %.

Matti

[Evgeny Velichko]

Hallo Matti.

Yes, I am aware of this loss. 2 large articles were in Luftwaffe in Focus.
But problem is:

Aircraft, wich was found, smashed into the ground with such force, that letters on bottom of cartridges of rear-firing MG, plunged a copy onto inner side of cartridge box. Aircraft is almost annihilated.

But that crew, Olt Klatt. reported belly landing and even made attempt to burn Camera films.

[Stig Jarlevik]

All

Seing the WNr 4824 was a surprise.
According to Mankau/Petrick the batch starts with 4828.
Is that a mistake or has NVM made a mistake...for a change ?

Cheers
Stig

[Matti Salonen]

Mankau/Petrick have a gap 4822-4827 between Bf 110 F-4 and Bf 110 G-3 batches. However, I have 4822, 4823, 4824, 4826 and 4827 lost in 1943 as Bf 110 G-4.

For the crash near Ponyri I can find only two candidates, which are close enough:
1943-05-07, 3./NAGr. 4 (NAGr. 4), Bf 110 G-3, 4897, L8+HL, 4 km nordwestlich Maloarchangelsk
Flugzeugführer Ofw Elz, Otto, vermißt
Beobachter Olt Böhringer, Nathanael, vermißt
Bordfunker Uffz Förster, Helmut, vermißt
Explodiert infolge Flakbeschuß. Bruch 100 %. Zwei Fallschirmabsprunge beobachtet.
1943-07-24, 3./NAGr. 4 (NAGr. 4), Bf 110 G-3, 4845, L8+DL, (Sewsk - Lgoff - Kursk - Fatesh)
Flugzeugführer Lt von Hein, Günter, gefangen
Beobachter Lt Kranz, Günther, vermißt
Bordfunker Ogfr Frisch, Christian, vermißt
Unbekannt. Bruch 100 %.

Matti

[Stig Jarlevik]

Thanks Matti

How silly of me not to trust the NVM

Very fascinating to be able to update the book. Since you list WNr 4824 as a G-3 in your initial answer, I presume when you are now saying the 'extras' were G-4 is a slip of the finger, or were some of these G-3 actually converted to G-4?

Cheers
Stig

[Matti Salonen]

All those WNrs are in the GQM loss list and only three are also in the NVMs. However, there are also errors in NVMs, but not as many as in GQM loss list. It is always good to question the information

Sorry, of course G-3. Fingers are typing faster than I am thinking. You see, how easy it is to make mistakes.

Matti

[Stig Jarlevik]

Thanks again Matti

Yes of course you must have the GQM as well.
Finger trouble? In my case I am not sure if even an operation would help

Now if we have finger trouble here, I can only imagine what problems everybody had back then. Luckily we can easily spot most of ours....

Cheers
Stig

[Evgeny Velichko]

1943-05-07, 3./NAGr. 4 (NAGr. 4), Bf 110 G-3, 4897, L8+HL, 4 km nordwestlich Maloarchangelsk
Flugzeugführer Ofw Elz, Otto, vermißt
Beobachter Olt Böhringer, Nathanael, vermißt
Bordfunker Uffz Förster, Helmut, vermißt
Explodiert infolge Flakbeschuß. Bruch 100 %. Zwei Fallschirmabsprunge beobachtet.

Gentlemen, thank You very much. This this the right crew.

[Matti Salonen]

Evgeny, do you know the fate of the crew?

Matti