Ju 52 crash details, Romania, 16 or 17 April 1944

[egbert]

On April 16 or 17, 1944, a JU52 crashed in the Romanian Mrakonia Valley, near the Danube River. The valley is not far from the town of Dubova.
Reason of crash is unknown. any details known please?

[Mihai Pica]

Hi egbert, there are two Ju 52's which crashed in that area, one on the 16th on one the 17th, if i remember correctly both of them were already discussed here on the forum in threads started by you, there is only a third crashed Ju52 in this timeframe but very far away from this area, namely in the Brates lake near Galati.

16.04.1944 9./TG 4 Ju52 Wnr. 501325 Toplitz, 9 km westl. Orsova
17.04.1944 11./TG 4 Ju52 Wnr. 501132 Orsova (32 km südl., auf Donau)

Both appear to have been attacked by 15th AF escort fighters

[Trendle]

Hallo Egbert,

Excerpt from „Point Blank” Volume 4 April 1944:

16. April 1944

9./TG 4 / Junkers Ju 52/3mg8e / # 501325 / Transportflug / Abschuss durch P-38 Lightning - 2nd Lieutenant Griffith - 82nd Fighter Group - 15th USAAF / Absturz nahe Toplitz, 9 Km westlich Orșova (Kreis Mehedinți) - Rumänien / Feldwebel Ludwig Hebstreit (FF) + Unteroffizier Heinz Kürschner (Bf) + Unteroffizier Josef Scharinger (Bw) + Unteroffizier Albin Kupczak (Bs) - gefallen / Passagiere: Feldwebel Hartmut Wilkens + Unteroffizier Johannes Elbinger + Obergefreiter Franz Gravogel + Unteroffizier Alfred Grimm + Unteroffizier Fritz Marx + Unteroffizier Walter Ney + Gefreiter Helmut Nonn + Unteroffizier Hubert Neger + Unteroffizier Kurt Trafoyer + Gefreiter Edmund Simon + Gefreiter Heinz Urban + Gefreiter Robert Karl Treutel (Bodenpersonal der 10. und 12./JG 54) - gefallen (2nd Lieutenant Griffith spricht die Ju 52 als He 111 an)

17. April 1944

1./TG 1 / Junkers Ju 52/3mg8e / # 130859 / 1Z + FH / Transportflug / Beschuss durch P-38 Lightning - Captain Force Jr. - 82nd Fighter Group - 15th USAAF / Notwasserung in der Donau etwa 32 Km südlich Orșova (Kreis Mehedinți) - Rumänien / Unteroffizier Hans Dieterle (FF) + Feldwebel Walter Müller + Unteroffizier Albert Neiteler + Gefreiter August Tatzel - gefallen / Passagiere: Feldwebel Franz Eichinger + Obergefreiter Friedrich Ziegler + Oberfeldwebel Anton Stamm + Feldwebel Hermann Gehre + Unteroffizier Servatius Neufang + Gefreiter Vinzent Barka + Gefreiter Horst Hoffmann + Obergefreiter Günther Wolff + Gefreiter Joachim Nass + Obergfreiter Rudolf Hausotter + Flieger Heinz Dippner + Obergefreiter Otto Wichern - gefallen

11./TG 4 / Junkers Ju 52/3mg8e / # 501132 / 1Z + JX / Abschuss durch P-38 Lightning - Lieutenant Patterson - 82nd Fighter Group - 15th USAAF / Absturz nahe Pančevo, nordöstlich Belgrad (Region Serbien) - Yugoslawien / Oberfeldwebel Willi Lichy (FF) - schwer verwundet - noch am selben Tag im Lazarett 521 in Belgrad seinen Verletzungen erlegen / Feldwebel Wilhelm Löwes + Feldwebel Otto Pielicke + Unteroffizier Herbert Hilgenberg - verwundet - Lazarett

Lufthansa / Junkers Ju 52/3mg14e / # 640996 / D-AOCA / „Harry Rother” / Linienflug Wien -> Belgrad -> Sofia -> Thessaloniki -> Athen / Beschuss durch P-38 Lightning - Captain Force Jr. - 82nd Fighter Group - 15th USAAF / Bruch bei Alt-Pasua (Zara Pazova), nordwestlich Belgrad (Region Serbien) - Yugoslawien / Flugkapitän Kurt Vogel (FF) - schwer verwundet - am 23. April 1944 im Lazarett 521 in Belgrad verstorben / 3 Passagiere gefallen / 2 Besatzungsmitglieder (Flzg.Fu. Georg Denzer + Fu.Ma. Karl Freymüller) kommen mit leichten Verwundungen davon

All the best,

Fred

[egbert]

Wow Vielen Dank und thank you so very much guys.
The info will be for a friend who once lived in the area and who researches all local German Luftwaffe crashes from WWI and II. Once a year he returns to these places for further studies......

[egbert]

Originally Posted by Trendle

Hallo Egbert,

Excerpt from „Point Blank” Volume 4 April 1944:


17. April 1944

......
Lufthansa / Junkers Ju 52/3mg14e / # 640996 / D-AOCA / „Harry Rother” / Linienflug Wien -> Belgrad -> Sofia -> Thessaloniki -> Athen / Beschuss durch P-38 Lightning - Captain Force Jr. - 82nd Fighter Group - 15th USAAF / Bruch bei Alt-Pasua (Zara Pazova), nordwestlich Belgrad (Region Serbien) - Yugoslawien / Flugkapitän Kurt Vogel (FF) - schwer verwundet - am 23. April 1944 im Lazarett 521 in Belgrad verstorben / 3 Passagiere gefallen / 2 Besatzungsmitglieder (Flzg.Fu. Georg Denzer + Fu.Ma. Karl Freymüller) kommen mit leichten Verwundungen davon

All the best,

Fred

Ok here is the discrepancy:

Maybe somebody has the answer.
According to Fred's document the Lufthansa "Harry Rother" was shot down on 17 April 1944.

According to this source
https://aviation-safety.net/database...0115-1&lang=de

the "Harry Rother" crashed on 15 January 1944

Can somebody please shed some light into the different dates of crash?

[Stig Jarlevik]

Egbert

Answer is simple enough if you check the WNr and civil registrations listed.
There were two aircraft named Harry Rother.
It seems D-AOCA replaced the earlier D-ADQW after its crash 15.1.1944

Cheers
Stig

[egbert]

Originally Posted by Stig Jarlevik

Egbert

Answer is simple enough if you check the WNr and civil registrations listed.
There were two aircraft named Harry Rother.
It seems D-AOCA replaced the earlier D-ADQW after its crash 15.1.1944

Cheers
Stig

Thanx Stig, the logical explanation