Uffz. Wilhelm Weber

[Ota Jirovec]

Hello all,

Uffz. Wilhelm Weber, a member of 10./JG 51 with at least 29 claims, was killed in a flying accident west of Kamenskij on 22. 9. 1943. Does anybody have the usual loss data for this pilot (such as subtype of his Bf 109G, Werknummer, tactical code....)? Many thanks in advance for any help.

[John Beaman]

Ota:

Are you sure about the name? Here's all I have:

Bf 109G-6, 15867, Weber, Uffz. Karl-Heinz, 26 absch., 10./JG 51, 9/22/1943, Killed in crash during transfer flight., Ostfront, Ring, JG 51 loss list, p.51, West of Kamenskoje.

[Ota Jirovec]

Hello John,

Many thanks for your kind reply.

Also Gerhard Aders and Werner Held in their Jagdgeschwader 51 Mölders write that the pilot lost on 22. 9. 1943 was Uffz. Karl-Heinz Weber. However I believe that this is a confusion with Oblt. Karl-Heinz “Benjamin” Weber, future RK-EL holder, who was however a member of III. Gruppe (7./JG 51) and was lost later, in June 1944, over Normandy (as Gruppenkommandeur of II./JG 1).

According to Tony Wood´s claim list, Uffz. Wilhelm Weber of 10./JG 51 has made 29 claims (4 of them ASM) during the period June – September 1943. Perhaps coincidentally, his last two claims were reported on 20. 9. 1943, only two days before “our” Weber was killed. According to the same list, there were only these two Webers in JG 51 making some claims during 1943 (and the Jagdfliegerverbände series by Mr. Prien et al. do not show any other pilot named Weber in JG 51 in earlier the stages of war).

IMHO, this seems to point out that the pilot killed on 22. 9. 1943 was actually Uffz. Wilhelm Weber (same Staffel, same rank, similar number of kills…).

Last but not least, also an excellent list of LW aces made by Jim Perry says that Uffz. Wilhelm Weber was KIFA on the above mentioned date.

[Andreas Brekken]

Hi, guys.

Apart from any surviving unit records, the only real source here would be the Namentliche Verlustemeldung for the loss of this Weber. The loss was reported in the record of January 22 1944, and as most of us know, this is not available from the usual sources.

So unless someone has already done it - off to WASt you go...

Regards,
Andreas

[Jim P.]

Grr, I have both names. If I recall correctly, a later edition of Aders had 2 Karl-Heinz Webers listed. The name Walter I think came from Tony Woods lists, while Hans Ring's JG 51 loss list has the pilot as Karl-Heinz.

ON EDIT -- Wilhelm, not Walter. Thanks Andreas.

[Andreas Brekken]

Hmmmmm, and now you bring an additional name Jim!

Walter, Wilhelm or Karl-Heinz.... that is the question!

Hopefully someone will pop up with the NVM sometime soon, or else I will have to pull it on my visit to WASt, even if I hadn't planned doing anything on JG 51...

Regards,
Andreas

[Ota Jirovec]

Gentlemen,

Many thanks for your kind answers. Certainly a very unclear case...

Regards,
Ota

[Jim P.]

Wilhelm, not Walter. What hat did I pull taht out of....

[Andreas Brekken]

hehe, guessed as much, but thought it best to mention it to avoid any further confusion...

regards,
Andreas