Total training+missions flying hours

[Moriii]

Good morning everyone,

This is generic question, which could apply to all air forces : I wish to compare the average flying time in training vs. front-line of an "average" pilot / crew.

I know that an "average" pilot is not easy to define, but you see the idea. It is also clear that these numbers will depend on countries: that's precisely what I want to show.

Quick search on training gave the following data, which are kind of suprising:

Germany until 1942 (according to [url=https://www.ww2-weapons.com/pilot-training-of-the-luftwaffe/]this page):
fighter pilot = 150-200h
bomber pilot = 200-270h

USA (according to this page):
65h (primary) + 75h (basic/advanced) = 140h.
As war went on, this was cut from "3 months" to "9 weeks", which would mean down to ca. 105h.

UK (according to this other page)
pre-war: at least 150h
wartime : 200-320h

I could not find data on the typical time flying missions. It will naturally depend on casualty rates. Any idea?

[ArtieBob]

I believe you misread the source for the USA training hours. Basic/advanced are two separate phases of the training, each 75 hours for a total of 215 hours. I grew up in WWII and can remember the constant sound and vision of training aircraft above me. All of my cousins who trained during that time are now dead, so I cannot comment on the typical hours, but reducing calendar time may not have cut the flying hours significantly. The urgency meant more flying each day and possibly more days per week.



ArtieBob

[Adriano Baumgartner]

A nice topic/subject.
I recommend you to purchase or have access to copies or original Flugbuchs or Logbooks, so you can have a clear idea and relevant DATA for analysing.
I understand that Pre-war Luftwaffe pilots did have a much higher standard, as well as Pre-War RAF pilots.
There are US Army Air Corps documents (oficial I mean) that inform that for B-17 pilot (as 1P or Captain) training, one needed at least 1,000 flying hours, at the beginning...On the same way, Pathfinder Mosquito Squadrons selected only Second Tour personnel as pilots....one book clearly says that they needed to have also at least 1,000 hours to apply to the posting.

Regarding a tipical sortie (flying time)....you need to check per TYPE or machine. Me 262 for instance did have a short autonomy, so average sorties were circa 1 hour (maximum 01:20hs or 01:30hs). A "typical" Ju 88 A-4 bomber sortie averaged 02 hours up to 03 hours...of course, there were cases of 4 hours +....An Avro Lancaster sortie averaged from 3 hours up to 10+ hours, depending of the target. Similarly I have read typical B-24 and B-17 sorties of 10-13 hours. A "typical" P-47 sortie was between 02 up to 03:15hs whilst I have seen sorties of 5 hours + on the type. Similarly, depending of the target area, etc...a "typical" Fw 190 sortie averaged between 1h-01:30hs.

There are a LOT of factors on the flying time of a typical combat sortie...the autonomy of "your" machine...if it was using extra dropping external fuel tanks or not, the target, the weather, the Flak Areas (to avoid or dog-leg them).

You can find some Luftwaffe Flugbuch copies on the internet (Ebay), at BAMA or on Militaria sites or on other Forums, for instance. They will give you some glimpse of a "typical" sortie per branch (Bomber, Fighter, etc.) and per period of the war.

I can add, for instance, that on the Brazilian Air Force (1st Brazilian Fighter Group, attached to the 350th FG in WW2), some pilots did have circa 800 flying hours when they entered combat, whilst others did have circa 350-350 flying hours.

Adriano

[Adriano Baumgartner]

I am currently reading "On Eagles' Wings" from Ezer Weizman, who was IAF Commander and later the 7th President of Israel. He talks about his early training with the RAF in 1944 and early in 1945, informing that the standard was indeed raised up, as well as the amount of flying hours.

https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/Boo...-srp0-_-image3

There are dozens of other books that give you a glimpse of the training both in the RAF as well as on the Luftwaffe.

[Stig Jarlevik]

Our friend Geoffrey Sinclair wishes to add the following:

For new personnel the general rule was the better the air force
situation was the more training was done, as a result the hours varied
for all air forces 1939 to 1945, allied ones tended to go up, axis ones
down. You need to choose which air force at what date and of course
what they were going to do and fly, plus the inevitable variations
between students. As the system became more efficient, more
instructors, more available equipment etc. students could obtain more
training hours per day, cutting the number of days required.

According to a diagram in Luftwaffe by Williamson Murray in the first
two years of the war Luftwaffe around 230 training hours, RAF 200 hours,
for October 1942 to June 1943, Luftwaffe around 200 training hours, RAF
350, USAAF 280 hours, for June 1943 to June 1944, Luftwaffe around 175
training hours, RAF 350, USAAF 325 hours, finally June 1944 to end,
Luftwaffe 125 training hours, RAF 350, USAAF 400 hours

When it comes to combat operations it depends on what the mission was,
whether the air force had the concept of a tour and as noted the loss
rate will determine how experienced the average aircrew would be before
they ceased combat operations. Again the length of a tour varied, the
8th Air Force started at 25 missions and ended up at 35, the 15th Air
Force ended up at 50 missions, but had the concept of a double mission
when attacking heavily defended targets (or ones the 8th Air Force also
attacked). Tours could be defined by the number of hours instead of
missions. Someone doing anti submarine patrols would probably fly more
operational hours per tour than if in a bomber unit.

Training continued in combat units, the 9th Air Force Flying time 16
October 1943 to 31 May 1945, Source Flying Time and Gasoline Consumption
Reports

Operational Hours by type \ Average Sortie length hours
A-20 67,917 \ 3.31
A-26 35,513 \ 3.55
B-26 267,941 \ 3.44
P-38 82,581 \ 2.51
P-47 475,052 \ 2.41
P-51 72,609 \ 2.96
P-61 6,411 \ 2.26
F-3 1,280 \ 2.04
F-5 13,309 \ 1.79
F-6 44,726 \ 1.83
P-51 RCN 3,344 \ 2.11
Total 1,070,904

Non Operational Hours
A-20 37,351
A-26 40,796
B-26 113,975
P-38 18,905
P-47 134,029
P-51 21,933
P-61 6,350
Beau 124
F-3 3,119
F-5 7,652
F-6 13,883
P-51 RCN 916
C-47 252,265
L-4 11,511
L-5 91,360
Misc 65,948
Total 820,117

According to the Bomber Command War Losses series the combat units lost
132 aircraft on air tests and 839 on training missions September 1939 to
April 1945 inclusive, which gives an idea of the amount of training
done, the 92 losses on ferry missions an indicator of the hazards of
wartime flying.

The Luftwaffe Quartermaster reports for Luftflotte Reich June 1943 to
December 1944 inclusive say 2,545 aircraft lost and 3,719 damaged not on
operations, again an indicator of training activity and in 1944 average
crew experience.

Geoffrey Sinclair