Bostons VS III/JG5

[focusfocus]

Hello all

25/05/44=20 Bostons (A-20,Il-4??) credited
26/05/44=11 Bostons (A-20,Ill-4??)
17/0644=9 Bostons (A-20,Il-4??)
27/06/44=10 Bostons (A-20,Il-4??)
28/06/40=5 Bostons (A-20,Il-4??)
04/07/44=11 Bostons (A-20,Il-4??)
17/07/44=13 Bostons (A-20,Il-4??)
17/08/44=12 Bostons (A-20,Il-4??)

81 Bostons in 8 days!!!!
Amazing,complete nonsense!

I have no information from the Soviet side,can someone elaborete?

Regards
michel

[Alex Smart]

From -
Tony Wood's Combat Claims & Casualties Lists.

25. May 1944

25.05.44 Ltn. Gerhard Lange 2./NAGr. 4 Pe-2 ⬜ 15 675 at 2.000 m. 08.59 Film C. 2032/I Anerk: Nr. 15

25.05.44 Fw. Helmut Allwart 4./SG 5 Airacobra ⬜ E. Omgang: at 1.200 m. 20.52 Film C. 2032/I Anerk: Nr. 9

25.05.44 Fhj.Ofw. Walter Schuck 9./JG 5 Boston III ⬜ N.E. Omgang: at 1.000 m. 21.32 Film C. 2032/I Anerk: Nr. 43
25.05.44 Ofw. August Lübking 9./JG 5 Boston III ⬜ E. Omgang: at 800 m. 21.33 Film C. 2032/I Anerk: Nr. 44
25.05.44 Fhj.Ofw. Walter Schuck 9./JG 5 Curtiss P-40 ⬜ E. Omgang: at 800 m. 21.35 Film C. 2032/I Anerk: Nr. 45
25.05.44 Ofw. August Lübking 9./JG 5 Curtiss P-40 ⬜ N. Berlevaag: at 800 m. 21.36 Film C. 2032/I Anerk: Nr. 46
25.05.44 Ofw. Rudolf Linz 8./JG 5 Boston III ⬜ N.W. Berlevaag: at 500 m. 21.37 Film C. 2032/I Anerk: Nr. 123
25.05.44 Fhj.Ofw. Walter Schuck 9./JG 5 Boston III ⬜ N.E. Berlevaag: at 800 m. 21.38 Film C. 2032/I Anerk: Nr. 47
25.05.44 Obfhr. Karl-Heinz Schneider 8./JG 5 Boston III ⬜ N.E. Berlevaag: at 1.000 m. 21.38 Film C. 2032/I Anerk: Nr. 124
25.05.44 Ofw. Rudolf Linz 8./JG 5 Boston III ⬜ N.W. Berlevaag: at 200 m. 21.39 Film C. 2032/I Anerk: Nr. 145
25.05.44 Fhj.Ofw. Walter Schuck 9./JG 5 Curtiss P-40 ⬜ N.E. Berlevaag: at 800 m. 21.40 Film C. 2032/I Anerk: Nr. 45
25.05.44 Ofw. Rudolf Linz 8./JG 5 Boston III ⬜ N.N.W. Berlevaag: tiefflug 21.40 Film C. 2032/I Anerk: Nr. 128
25.05.44 Fhj.Ofw. Walter Schuck 9./JG 5 Boston III ⬜ N.E. Berlevaag: tiefflug 21.43 Film C. 2032/I Anerk: Nr. 48
25.05.44 Uffz. Rudolf Artner 9./JG 5 Airacobra ⬜ N.E. Berlevaag: 1.500 m. 21.44 Film C. 2032/I Anerk: Nr. 57
25.05.44 Fhj.Ofw. Walter Schuck 9./JG 5 Boston III ⬜ N.E. Berlevaag: tiefflug 21.45 Film C. 2032/I Anerk: Nr. 51
25.05.44 Uffz. Hermann Amend 9./JG 5 Boston III ⬜ N.E. Berlevaag: tiefflug 21.47 Film C. 2032/I Anerk: Nr. 52
25.05.44 Ofw. Rudolf Linz 8./JG 5 Boston III ⬜ N.W. Berlevaag: at 200 m. 21.35 Film C. 2032/I Anerk: Nr. 202
25.05.44 Ofw. Rudolf Linz 8./JG 5 Boston III ⬜ N.W. Berlevaag: at 100 m. 21.36 Film C. 2032/I Anerk: Nr. 203
25.05.44 Oblt. Rudolf Glöckner 8./JG 5 Boston III ⬜ N.W. Berlevaag: at 200 m. 21.38 Film C. 2032/I Anerk: Nr. 204
25.05.44 Fw. Heinz Arnold 7./JG 5 Curtiss P-40 ⬜ N.E. Berlevaag: at 1.000 m. 21.42 Film C. 2032/I Anerk: Nr. 101
25.05.44 Maj. Heinrich Ehrler Stab III./JG 5 Airacobra ⬜ N.E. Berlevaag: at 1.500 m. 21.43 Film C. 2032/I Anerk: Nr. 135
25.05.44 Maj. Heinrich Ehrler Stab III./JG 5 Airacobra ⬜ N.E. Berlevaag: at 1.000 m. 21.45 Film C. 2032/I Anerk: Nr. 134
25.05.44 Oblt. Franz Dörr 7./JG 5 Curtiss P-40 ⬜ N.N.E. Berlevaag: at 1.200 m. 21.45 Film C. 2032/I Anerk: Nr. 103
25.05.44 Fw. Heinz Arnold 7./JG 5 Boston III ⬜ N.N.E. Berlevaag: at 200 m. 21.45 Film C. 2032/I Anerk: Nr. 102
25.05.44 Fw. Heinz Arnold 7./JG 5 Boston III ⬜ N.N.E. Berlevaag: at 200 m. 21.46 Film C. 2032/I Anerk: Nr. 104
25.05.44 Maj. Heinrich Ehrler Stab III./JG 5 Boston III ⬜ N.N.E. Berlevaag: at 200 m. 21.47 Film C. 2032/I Anerk: Nr. 140
25.05.44 Fhj.Fw. Helmut Neumann 7./JG 5 Curtiss P-40 ⬜ N.N.E. Berlevaag: at 1.200 m. 21.47 Film C. 2032/I Anerk: Nr. 105
25.05.44 Uffz. Heinz Hook 7./JG 5 Boston III ⬜ N.E. Berlevaag: at 150 m. 21.47 Film C. 2032/I Anerk: Nr. 106
25.05.44 Maj. Heinrich Ehrler Stab III./JG 5 Curtiss P-40 ⬜ N.N.E. Berlevaag: at 150 m. 21.48 Film C. 2032/I Anerk: Nr. 141
25.05.44 Oblt. Franz Dörr 7./JG 5 Boston III ⬜ N.N.E. Berlevaag: at 300 m. 21.49 Film C. 2032/I Anerk: Nr. 107
25.05.44 Fhj.Fw. Helmut Neumann 7./JG 5 Boston III ⬜ N.N.E. Berlevaag: at 1.200 m. 21.49 Film C. 2032/I Anerk: Nr. 108
25.05.44 Oblt. Franz Dörr 7./JG 5 Boston III ⬜ N.N.E. Berlevaag: at 300 m. 21.50 Film C. 2032/I Anerk: Nr. 109
25.05.44 Fhj.Fw. Helmut Neumann 7./JG 5 Airacobra ⬜ N. Berlevaag: at 300 m. 21.51 Film C. 2032/I Anerk: Nr. 110
25.05.44 Oblt. Franz Dörr 7./JG 5 Airacobra ⬜ N.N.E. Berlevaag: at 1.400 m. 21.52 Film C. 2032/I Anerk: Nr. 111
25.05.44 Oblt. Rudolf Glöckner 8./JG 5 Curtiss P-40 ⬜ N.W. Berlevaag: at 1.000 m. 21.53 Film C. 2032/I Anerk: Nr. 201

25.05.44 Fw. Gerhard Zschäbitz 3./JG 52 Pe-2 ⬜ 97 636 at 7.500 m. 07.35 Film C. 2032/I Anerk: Nr. 372
25.05.44 Ltn. Leonhard Färber 3./JG 52 Yak-9 ⬜ 97 217 at 5.500 m. 07.49 Film C. 2032/I Anerk: Nr. 373
25.05.44 Fw. Josef Jelaciz 3./JG 52 Yak-9 ⬜ 97 296 at 5.500 m. 07.50 Film C. 2032/I Anerk: Nr. 274
25.05.44 Fw. Adolf Nehrig 1./JG 52 Il-2 m.H. ⬜ 97 712: at 2.000 m. 08.13 Film C. 2032/I Anerk: Nr. 277

25.05.44 Uffz. Heinz Lauterbach 6./SG 10 Yak-9 ⬜ 98/82 at 50 m. 17.38 Film C. 2032/I Anerk: Nr. 4
25.05.44 Uffz. Erich Pilz 6./SG 10 Yak-9 ⬜ 97/22 at 5 m. 17.40 Film C. 2032/I Anerk: ASM

[Alex Smart]

Claims of just one Pilot for the 25th are also noted here -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._Walter_Schuck

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Sorry Alex,J' have the info from the luftwaffe side,what J'm looking for is the Soviet version to confirm (or not!!) the delirium of the claims!!!

michel

[robert]

Hi,

during the first attack on 25.05.44 Soviets lost 1 IL-4 and 3 A-20 and during the course of the evening battle 3 more Bostons failed to return.

[focusfocus]

21h32 =first boston claimed
21h50=last claimed
How do we differentiate the first attack from the evening attack?....the same,no?

[Rottler]

Hello michel,

according to Jagdfliegerverbände Vol. 15/I there was only an evening battle. A German convoy was under attack by 90 to 100 Russian aircraft (Boston and Il-2, escorted by P-39s and P-40s).
The steamer “Solvik“ was sunk, the cargo ship “Herta Engeline Fritz“ was damaged.
19 Bf 109 of III./JG 5 encountered the Russian formations at 21.30 hrs, the attacks lasted about 30 minutes. So the time frame from 21.32 to 21.50 hrs is plausible.
All claims are listed as confirmed with the comment that they are clearly excessive.

Regards
Leo

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Some losses of the air units of Soviet Northern Fleet
26 May 1944: 9 MTAP lost 1 Il-4 and 3 A-20s shot down
28 June 1944: 36 MTAP lost 1 A-20 shot down
04 July 1944: 36 MTAP lost 2 A-20 shot down
17 July 1944: 3 A-20 of 36 MTAP are in the loss list but no reason is given. Two force-landed in Soviet territory, one burning after landing, the 3rd has no detail, but apparently all three crew survived.
17 August 1944: 5 SOviet bombers shot down: 2 A-20 of 36 MTAP and 1 Il-4 and 2 A-20 of 9 MTAP
Source: an online database no more available on net (http://www.eismeerfront.com/eis_html/poteri.htm)

Pour avoir plus de détail sur les batailles de mai et juin, voir https://igor-ktb.livejournal.com/tag...0%D0%BC%D0%BE/
It is a Russian site but using data from both sides.

[focusfocus]

Sorry for the delay,thanks everyone

At this level,it's difficult it to be a "classic" overclaiming.....fraudulent claims.
michel