ANZAC Day 26

[Buckeye30]

Many services around the UK today.


Bristol C4623 "Australia No.20 / NSW No.18" from the Australian Air Sqns. Fund Scheme, No.1 Sqn. AFC Palestine 1918.


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...lane_slnsw.jpg


"Bid him be swift and keen as they".


Nick (maybe should be in "General").

[Stig Jarlevik]

Nothing general about a Bristol Fighter Nick

However there is a controversy which aircraft this actually was. Past wisdom has quoted C4623!

However looking into the "new" (at least newer...) Air Britain's Bristol Fighter book, under individual
description, C4623 is now claimed to be Australia No 8, NSW No 7.

But checking the same book on page 399, the authors claim it had both honorary titles.

I find that a bit hard to believe.

I don't suppose anyone has an answer to that riddle?

Cheers
Stig

[Buckeye30]

Stig. Still trying to figure this out.


This is C4623 allotments, RFC and AFC; both names listed at different times....
C4623,Bristol F.2b Fighter
C4623,,Bristol Fighter,,-,,,19.03.18,Australia No.8 New South Wales No.7 The Mrs P Kirby & Son,analysis,Gift,-,gift
C4623,,Bristol Fighter,,,,1AFC Mejdel,19.03.18,received,AWM,ORB,AWM4-8-4-3,AFC
C4623,,Bristol Fighter,,,Kantara,1AFC Mejdel,19.03.18,Kantara to Julis,AWM,ORB,AWM4-8-4-3,AFC
C4623,,Bristol Fighter,,-,,Egypt,05.04.18,[New South Wales No.7] insciption has been painted on,AIR 1/142,present,5/img_0474,present
C4623,,-,,-,,1AFC,16.06.18,New South Wales No.7 (on charge 1AFC),AIR 1/142,present,5/img_0473,present
C4623,,Bristol Fighter,,,,1AFC Ramleh,26.06.18,Combat with Albatross. Lt AW Murphy Ok/Lt AWK Farquhar+ [serial not given],AWM,ORB,AWM4-8-4-6,AFC
C4623,,Bristol Fighter,Fal3,,,1AFC Ramleh,10.08.18,TOC from XAP Kantara,AWM,ORB,AWM4-8-4-8,AFC
C4623,,Bristol Fighter,,,Kantara,1AFC Ramleh,10.08.18,Kantara to Ramleh,AWM,ORB,AWM4-8-4-8,AFC
C4623,,Bristol Fighter,,-,,SUSPECT,15.08.18,Australia No.20 New South Wales No.18 The McCaughrey Battleplane,analysis,Gift,-,gift
C4623,,Bristol Fighter,,-,,Palestine Bde,15.08.18,Australia No.20 New South Wales No.18 The McCaughey Battleplane presented by Sir Samuel McCaughey of North Yanco Yanco and John McCaughey of Warrabee Torundah Riverina No.1,AIR 1/14,present,18/img_0416,present
C4623,,Bristol Fighter III,,-,1AFC,111Sq,04.02.19,,AIR 1/1814,RO 40Wg,20/img_0675,RO
C4623,,Bristol Fighter III,Fal3,WD39399,111Sq,XAP,13.05.19,,AIR 1/1949,RO 111Sq,19/img_1461,RO
C4623,,Bristol Fighter III,,WD30399,XAP,ASD ME,24.07.19,From Palestine Bde,AIR 1/1693,RO ME,18/img_1708,RO
C4623,,Bristol Fighter III,,WD30399,XAP,ASD ME,24.07.19,,AIR 1/1644,RO ME,14/img_1059,RO


This is her service history in the RAAF Archive; only mentions No.20/No.18 though. Serials are alphabetical.
https://aircrewremembered.com/mcguin...b-fighter.html


This is a NSW site with original documents, C4623 shown on p.20 as "NSW no.7" only and on p.21 as "Australia no.20/NSW no.18"; problem HERE is 2 different WD engine numbers given !
https://transcripts.sl.nsw.gov.au/pa...ng-rfc-1917-18


"Cross and Cockade" (1983) has a very good list by Ray Vann and Colin Waugh of Presentation Aircraft, Australia and others; C4623 listed with BOTH names. "ADF Serials Australia" doesn't have a name. 2 thing to note, in "Allotments" the entry for 5.4.18 says "name has been painted on" in Egypt ie. "NSW no.7"; and on 15.8.18 says "SUSPECT" before second name "Australia no.20 / NSW no.18".


Obviously C4623 can't have 2 different engines unless replaced. Possibly No.7 is right as gifted 19.3.18 by Mrs. Kirby---and name was marked on then--and no.20 / no.18 a different Bristol. Probably never know for sure.

[Stig Jarlevik]

Thanks Nick

I never checked the net, only two sources "in my hand" so to speak.
I do have the RFC/RAF data at the top of your message, but the Paul McGuiness site was new to me.
Will take a closer look later.

I think the main problem we face is that in WW 1 the Presentation Aircraft's names were constantly inherited.

Australia No 8 (NSW No 7) "The Mrs P Kirby & Son" was initially FE.2b A5449 and later DH-5 A9415, Bristol F2b C4623.

Australia No 20 (NSW No 18) "The McCaughey Battleplane" was initially RE.8 A3747 and later F2b C4623 and finally
RE.8 F1588 (from Jan 1919)

Could actually the same aircraft have carried two different names?
My first reaction was NO, NEVER! But what if it was a clerical error, did C4623 get repainted and when the mistake was detected
it thus got its former name back again?

No idea to be honest. I suppose stranger things happened during WW 1....

Unfortunately I have never seen a photo of either F2b where both the names and serial numbers are visible.
So yes, a riddle which at least I can't solve either....

Cheers
Stig