96. OIAE in Izmail on 22 Vi 1941?

[Mirek Wawrzynski]

Hi

96.OIAE in Izmail on 22 VI 1941



There are some different data about this unit, which was in Izmail on 22 VI 1941. On his strength unit had biplanes I-15bis and I-153. The unit commander was capitain A. Korabitzyn. I have met information, that there were 14 serviceable planes on 22 VI 1941. From other sources are known, that there were up to 17 fighters. This unit was attached to Danube Military Fleet.

These red fighters fought with Romanian bombers at 14.00. According one sources took off from the airfield 3 I-153 and 14 I-15bis (second sources: 6 I-153, 8 I-15bis) of 96. OIAE. The squadron took off to attack Romanian bombers 9 PZL P.37 Los of Esc. 77 Grupul 4 Bombardament (4. Grupa Bombowa) who attack Bulgarica airfield.
Romanian bombers were escorted by 6 Romanian Hurricanes of Esc. 53 van. Over the target one P.37 was shot down by A/A Battery.
Second bomber was claimed by Soviet fighters. First who claimed the victory over Romanian bomber was young leytanat Mihail S. Maksimov. He had hit the bomber, which next had dropped into Danube (?).

Soviet pilots had claimed 3 bombers over Izmaił and one more was credited to A/A battery after this combat.
Other Soviet sources given up to 5 victories, which were credited only to fighters

During the combat one Soviet pilot was wounded. No other losses are known.

Romanian Hurricane fighters had claimed 4 victories over Soviet fighters. Total Romanian bomber losses were 2 P.37 Los – one was no 206 (piloted by adjutant sef aviator Vasile Nanescu – bombers had smashed into the ground). The next P.37, no “214” was piloted by sublocotenent aviator de rezerva Florin Teodorescu. All 8 Romanian aircrews were KIA.
Romanian sources sustain, that 2 P.37 Los were shot down only by Soviet A/A battery, not losses were sustained by them from attacking Red fighters.

Regards,
Mirek Wawrzynski

[Dénes Bernád]

You will be able to read the real story in a forthcoming book I co-authored, which will hopefully be published later on this year.

P.S. As I've already written in my chapter of the recently published reference work on the P.Z.L. P.37, 96. OIAE did not clash with the ARR 'Los' bombers as it's wrongly stated in several sources. I-16s of 67 IAP did.

[Mirek Wawrzynski]

Yes I well know it (a book about PZL P.37 - good work, I have it), and still do not agree with your opinion from the pages 216-217.

You do not exactly read Romanian document - reports. It is clear given, which unit was attacked by which unit (Soviet 67. IAP or 96. OIAE).
So, I sustain my point of view.

PZL P. 37s were attacked by fighters from Izmail, not from Bolgrad (67. IAP). izmaił was the main base for Danube Navy and 96. OIAE was attached to his structure for air cover. Airbase was located in Izmaił + A/A battery was there too.

Potez 63s + He 112s were attacked by I-16s of 67. IAP (from Bolgrad). Similar losses to the Romaninan bombers 2 shot down, one force landed). These formation attacked Bolgrad area at 10.50-12.50. There was 67. IAP, nearby was also 68. IAP with I-16s.

So, I am very sorry, but it is obvious, that 96. OIAE had attacked P.37s and you have made simply mistake, your opinin about this case is wrong - you had mixed the units and places.

Regards,
MirekW

PS
I had written about this small episode too, in my story printed in July 2007 in Poland.
Mirosław Wawrzyński, Huragan nad Konstancą i Odessą. Escadrila 53 Vânatoare w walkach 1941 r. (Hurricane over Constanca and Odessa. Escadrila 53 Vânatoare in combat 1941), p. 17 + 2 color (37 b&w photos, 1 colour, 5 colour drawings of Hurricane I „red 1”, „yellow 5, 7, 8, ex-VVKJ”), [in:] Militaria i Fakty 3(36)/2006.

[Dénes Bernád]

Originally Posted by Mirek Wawrzynski

You do not exactly read Romanian document - reports. It is clear given, which unit was attacked by which unit (Soviet 67. IAP or 96. OIAE).
So, I sustain my point of view.

I don't know which Rumanian document are you referring to. I haven't seen, so far, a single Rumanian wartime document where the Soviet unit is clearly identified.

Anyway, you're entitled to believe in what you want, no problem. However, I reconstructed, together with my colleague, the facts based on documents and precise information - so it's not merely "my opinion". You'll be able to read the actual story in our forthcoming book, as mentioned.

[Mirek Wawrzynski]

Hi
This is not a problem of to belive but the matter of fact and its interpretation.
I do not say, that I have seen any Romanian document with exact/detail name of Soviet unit, send to fight with P.37s and Potez 63.

"I haven't seen, so far, a single Rumanian wartime document where the Soviet unit is clearly identified. "

I only can say, that according Romanian report about 22 VI 41 air combats is clear written, that P.37s + Hurri were attacked by Soviet unit, which took off from Izmail (fighters form Izmail). The only unit, which was there was 96. OIAE.
The 67. IAP was far aaway from Izmail.

Second the units based there cliamed destroyed bombers both by A/A unit - one shot down enemy bomber + next 3-5 enemy bombers shot down by fighters (depends this figure, which sources you have in Russian of course). BTW 96. OIAE took part on 22 VI in at least two combats - in both pilots claimed victories (in second over IAR 37 or 38)

More, there are also some memories of 67. IAP (if right remeber) which presnets this comabt form this unit pilot's point of view.

So, you also have right belive what do you want, it is up to you.
And sill you can not support your point of view with any credible information that it was exactly 67. IAP.
This unit anyway took part in combat, but with second Romanian fromation in quite similar time too - a little earlier.

I thing your reconstruction is wrong and you simply mix Soviet fighter formation, which took part in both combat. You have right to be/ to write about both comabt wrong.
To make errors is human, :-)

Regards,
Mirek Wawrzynski

PS
1. I do not underestand why you have take exactly 67. IAP and do not for example 68. IAP, which also had I-16. It has "no matter" this or second regiment - both had I-16 on 22 VI 1941?
2. BTW, I am looking for the amount of fighters in 96. OIAE: 14 (servicable) or maybe 17 were there?

[Dénes Bernád]

Originally Posted by Mirek Wawrzynski

The 67. IAP was far aaway from Izmail.

According to my co-author's primary sources, 67 IAP was based on Bolgarijka (Bulgărica) airfield - the very target the P.37s were attacking...

Second the units based there cliamed destroyed bombers both by A/A unit - one shot down enemy bomber + next 3-5 enemy bombers shot down by fighters (depends this figure, which sources you have in Russian of course).

This is correct.

BTW 96. OIAE took part on 22 VI in at least two combats - in both pilots claimed victories (in second over IAR 37 or 38).

Can you give us your sources, please?

So, you also have right belive what do you want, it is up to you.
And sill you can not support your point of view with any credible information that it was exactly 67. IAP.

Here is a quote from the manuscript under work: "A Soviet document mentions 5 He-111s,3 Savoyas,3 Me-110s,3 Me-109s and 2 Blenheims showt down by I-16s of 67 IAP, while another contemporary Soviet source gives 7 He-111s, 6 Me-110s,3 Me-109s,1 Savoya and one unidentified bomber".

To make errors is human, :-)

Of course, you're right.

1. I do not underestand why you have take exactly 67. IAP and do not for example 68. IAP, which also had I-16. It has "no matter" this or second regiment - both had I-16 on 22 VI 1941?

I am not aware of the existence of 68 IAP in Southern Bessarabia. The only unit close to this name, equipped with I-16, under OdVO command, was 168 IAP, based on Kolosovka.

2. BTW, I am looking for the amount of fighters in 96. OIAE: 14 (servicable) or maybe 17 were there?

According to my co-author's sources: "At that time, this independent naval fighter squadron had in its roster 17 Polikarpov I-15bis and I-153 biplane fighters, based on an airfield nearby Izmail (Ismail), close to River Danube’s estuary."
I hope this details helps your researches.

[Mirek Wawrzynski]

Sources about 96. OIAE, There are several ones. One could be in Polish (based on Soviet one, but author did not show exact Soviet material - Tadeusz Konecki, Sewastopol 1941-1942, 1944, Wydawnictwo MON, Warszawa 1987, (yes 20 years ago). On the Page 13 is following information: 17 fighters of 96. OIAE, (kpt. Korabicyn) had attacked 9 Romanian bombers PZL-37 Los at 14.00. The first victory claimed ml. leyt. M. Maksimov, a veteran from LakeHasan combat. The bomber had to dropt to Danume. Soviet pilot claimed 4 victories. It was the first plane claimed by fighters from VVS Black Fleet.
Russian source: for example: Aviatsya rossyjskowo flota, Sankt Peterburg, 1996, page. 125; fighters of 96. IE, shot down 5 Romanian PZL-37 at 14.00.
Or Zolotariev, Kozlov, “Tri stoletja rossyjskowo flota 1941-45”: fighters of 96. OIE shot down over Izmail 3 bombers (no names) + 1 by A/A, p. 610 (via Bojeva letopis WMF, s. 125). In this last source there were 14 serviceable fighters.

There are not all Soviet/Russian sources, which I have seen about this particular combat.

“Strange”, that one gives claims for 3 bombers other for 5. So maybe, that these for all 5 are the united victories (my assumption) claimed on 22 VI against enemy planes (PZL P.37 and IAR-37 bombers).

The sources for 67.IAP could be K.A Wierszynin “Czetwierta wozduszna”, Moskwa 1975, p. 80-81 about the glory day for mjr Rudakov’s pilots. The 67. IAP was in Bolgrad (the second name is given Bolgarica) airfield.

I have not yet met with Soviet/Russian history, concerning air action done by VVS Balck Fleet on 22 VI 1941, which presents, that fighters from 96. OIAE had attacked at 14.00 (Russian time of course) the following
Planes as you written:

"Fighters of VVS ChF claimed this day five ARR bombers – identified as ‘SET-15’, similar to the Soviet R-5 biplane – intercepted by pilots of 96 OIAE (96th Independent Naval Air Squadron) over Izmail (Ismail)."

I have met of course the information about the next combat (a few years ago) concerning the next fight of this unit with “IAR-37”, but just know I can not give any source of it, it was too long time ago.

BTW. Which is the sources of this information about?

Regards,
Mirek Wawrzyński

[Dénes Bernád]

Originally Posted by Mirek Wawrzynski

BTW. Which is the sources of this information about?

My colleague and co-author works only with primary sources.