bf 109 yellow spinner orange/yellow checkerboard nose

[blythsco]

My father was flying a photo recce mission in an unarmed Spitfire MK XI over Dresden on or about August 22, 1944. He was intercepted by a 109 and managed to evade by pulling back on the stick and climbing to 34,000sf Any ideas on the identity of the pilot,unit, etc?

[Kutscha]

Would say it was a P-51B/C and not a 109.

[blythsco]

Thanks Kutscha but I am pretty sure it was a 109 since my father was with the USAAF 8th AF 7th Photo Group and flew P-51s after the war. It would have been unfortunate to be intercepted by a friendly over Dresden. Is there a German A/C with the designation P-51B/C? BTW he would not have been the only photo recce Spitfire to be intercepted by P-51s if that is in fact the case.

[harrison987]

Hi,

For sure there were no Me109's I know of that had a checkboard on the nose. That being said, there were many Fw190's with a checkboard on the nose (though usually white, as opposed to yellow). it is posisble he was intercepted by a Fw190, but he mis-ID'd as 109...



Mike

[Graham Boak]

It is much more likely that a 109, rather than a 190, reached the altitude to intercept a PR Spitfire Mk.XI. The 190As with colourful noses were, I believe, both earlier than this and based nearer the German/Dutch border. I don't know of any such brightly-painted 109 unit, either, but an individual in a second-line unit might have been involved.

It would, I think, be reasonably straightforward for the appropriate expert to discover if any P-51s were operating in this area on or around those dates, either from the 8th or out of Italy. I don't know of any orange and yellow checkers on a P-51, but yellow and red were used, and also yellow and black. Either could be misidentified in a combat.

[Jaap Woortman]

Originally Posted by blythsco

My father was flying a photo recce mission in an unarmed Spitfire MK XI over Dresden on or about August 22, 1944.

I have no Spitfire missions at August 22nd, 1944 of No.7 Photo Group.
Lt. John S. Blyth flew Spitfire mission 7/3042 at August 19th, no target mentioned, and 7/3065 at August 24th, 1944, target Freital, Ruhland, Brux, Plauen, Kothen A/Fs; Lonnewitz, Preytzch. Sounds very east Germany to me.
I suppose the date must be August 24th, 1944.

Jaap

[Kaczmarek]

Dear Jaap,

do you have informations about Spitfire recco missions to Chemnitz in 1944 / 45 ? Any infos are welcome.

Regards,

Kaczmarek

[harrison987]

Hi Graham,

Cherboards were used in 1944, not early-war .

JG1 was famous for having the checkerboard nose in 1944. They constantly flew high altitude missions to intercept bombers of the 8th AF. As part of the "Defense of the Reich", JG1 started using distinctive coloured fuselage bands to as a quick identification in combat. The bands were abandoned during mid/late 1944, however I./JG 1 were unique in using a variation of a more colourful identification scheme of checkerboard black and white striped engine cowlings. The checkerboards were divided into black-white, black-red and black-yellow for the 1, 2 and 3 Staffeln respectively.

JG1 was stationed in Central and Western Germany from 1943-1945. The Spitfire undoubtedly would have crossed their patrol area, as Dresden is in Eastern Germany.

I wold almost say 100%, it was a Fw190 from 3 Staffel, I./JG1, which was mis-ID'd as Me109.

Mike

[Graham Boak]

But did they still have them in August? I didn't think they lasted that long, but bow to superior information.

The P-51 seems the likelier misidentification - although I have read on many much stranger mistakes.

[Tom Semenza]

A P-51 misidentification also seemed the most likely explanation to me and the most likely candidate would be the 357th Fighter Group with its red/yellow checkered nose. In August 1944 this group still had some
P-51B/Cs and some had dark green painted upper surfaces. Unfortunately I can find no evidence that the 357th was in action over Germany on August 22nd.

Tom