JG52 red devil marking

[csflan]

Between July to September 1940, is the JG52 "red devil" marking belong to 2./JG52 or 5./JG52? Several publications seem to contradict each other.

Thanks for the help.

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

I've seen the same contradictions in sources, but, as someone who wrote a history of that period of II./JG52 for the old Luftwaffe Verband journal, and having followed the unit's history for about 40 years, I can assure you that the "red devil" was the insignia of 5./JG52, NOT 2./JG52.

Regards

did ekkehard bob design it,as im told,i was told nov 40.flypast magazine,aug 06,,
gary

[Cpt_Farrel]

I'm not sure but I think that Bob designed the Devilshead emblem used by 9./JG54, not 5./J52

[O.Menu]

I perfectly agree with you Larry, here is what i have said on jg52 board with Mr Bernd Barbas replie:

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Olivier Menu
my personal feelling
Wed Oct 27, 2004 11:50
83.112.103.241



After extensive research it seems that Karl Ries wrongly identified "Rabbatz" badge as 2./JG52 in 1963.
Then many publications speaking from Schumman's red1, Bielmeier's red8, Griener's red13 or Zaunbrecher's red 14 (not 4) missidentified them as 2./JG52 instead of 5./JG52.

My main problem is that E.Mombeeck still do this error in his recent "Jagdwaffe" books speaking of BoF and BoB when we have photo proof that 2./JG52 already used early Bf 109E with black or more probably red digit and "running boar" badge on their noses before BoB and probably also before BoF.

So it seems more and more probable for me that "Rabbatz" badge had never been 2./JG52 but 5./JG52 only !"
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Bernd Barbas
Devil emblem
Wed Oct 27, 2004 12:40
194.45.48.52


Hello Oliver ,

actually I did not do too much research about the history of the individual Staffel markings .
I know the Ries books and I have the Ries books and I knew Mr Ries personally as a pioneer in this area , but I assume , that he simply mixed up 2. and 5. Staffel due to that reason , that II Gruppe often used no II Gruppe bar .
Unfortunately , I never discussed this with him .
2. Staffel had early the "wild boar " emblem and 1944 R.Trenkel used the " Sarotti " emblem . There is also a photo existing with a Sarotti shield , but I only saw this Sarotti sign at Trenkels ac . Actually this came from Dähne , he had eaten a lot of chocolate and a very dark skin tan from the russian sun .
For the cover of my I / JG 52 book I am looking for the 1. Staffel emblem .
I dont want to use the early " flying soldier " emblem
( Galland ) , I want to use either " ALADIN " or " TORERO "
( Wolfrum or Eberwein ) From Torero I got only a draft , no Info about Aladin .

All the best , Bernd Barbas

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The link for the full tread:
http://disc.server.com/discussion.cg...rd;pagemark=50


Cheers, Olivier

[csflan]

Thank you for your responses in clearing this up. Now that you mentioned the fact that II/JG52 units did not always use the gruppe markings aft of the Balkenkreuz, I went through my sources and did not see a single photo with a gruppe marking on it.

What about other units not using the gruppe markings during this time period? I have also noticed that III/JG51 and III/JG54 may not have used them either.