Bf 109s on eBay. 13/01 - Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum

ouidjat · #1 13th January 2012, 12:47

,
Just a comment about #13:
New emblem? Personal one? JG 11 or JG 300??

Enjoy them, cheers. Franck.

ouidjat · #2 13th January 2012, 13:39

He Ho!!! Alter Hase since this morning; RESPECT OK?

I'm kidding....

#5 WNr.2023!
Famous one since it has been brought back to life. Shot down 27/5/1942, Sommer flying it while in 8./JG 5.
http://www.me109.info/display.php?a=e&fid=2207 and others on same Falcon site.
But now we got it in E-3 version, with early 1940 camouflage. Who flew it? Which unit?

Many thanks for your answers and comments.

Best regards, Franck.

ouidjat · #3 13th January 2012, 15:01

OK....

Let me try; if #5 is taken in early 1940, let's say May June, as indicated by camouflage the only one I see is Balthasar in 1./JG 1.
Mölders is another possibility but camo doesn't match pretty well.
Not enough victories for Galland...

Mere speculations of course.

Next to try? ... except if you have the right answer.

Tschüss, Franck.

Jochen Prien · #4 13th January 2012, 15:56

Gentlemen,

the victory tally on the tail of the Emil in photo no. 5 belongs to Oblt. Wolfgang Lippert, then StKap. of 5./JG 27. This and the other photos showing Emils of II./JG 27 in this collection were originally part of a small album of a former member of II./JG 27 which was apparently ripped apart to sell the photos individually - just one more time this happened and an entity of photos will dissolve in all directions.

Regards

Jochen Prien

ouidjat · #5 13th January 2012, 16:59

UUUUPPPSSS,

.

Thank you Mr. Prien!
I don't want to fight with you BUT:
I don't see nowhere (JFV Teil 3 and Teil 4.1) Oblt. Lippert as Staffel Kaptain of 5./JG 27 and P.403 Hptm. Lippert is credited of his 16th victory on 1/11/1940 in Stab II./JG 27. Here we can count 17th.
Hence my confusion... with something which is looking -for me - much more with "Balthasar" style.

I'm sure, whatever, you're most probably right.

Thanks a lot for your comments.

Regards, Franck.

Jochen Prien · #6 13th January 2012, 17:27

Dear Franck,

I'm awfully sorry for the confusion I caused by ( too ) quickly answering from my office desk and based solely on my - faulty - memory. You are right of course in observing that Wolfgang Lippert was Hauptmann by the time this photo was taken and that he was C.O. of II./JG 27 and not Staffelkapitän of 5./JG 27.

So here we go again: the victory tally belongs to the a/c of Hptm. Wolfgang Lippert, then Gruppenkommandeur of II./JG 27. The exact date and location of the photo are not known and leave some pace for further research.

Regards

Joche Prien

ouidjat · #7 13th January 2012, 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jochen Prien

This and the other photos showing Emils of II./JG 27 in this collection were originally part of a small album of a former member of II./JG 27

Thank you Jochen,
I'd better do the link between that one and the other pictures sold by this seller; even like that I won't be able to make the link!

Thanks again Mr. Prien.

Tschüss, Franck.

Any thoughts about #7 where we can see a 1./JG 54 E-3 with a Weisse 6 ... Humm, it is said! ... and a magnificent white cowling; since the Code number is white.?

ouidjat · #8 13th January 2012, 18:59

This link:
http://www.luftwaffe.cz/lippert.html
If you take the 5 Legion Condor victories out of the list, we have the 16th on 1/11/1940 over Canterbury and the 17th on 22/6/1941 over S Knyszyn.
during his short Balkan period....
Since the plane camouflage appears to be early 1940 style we can suppose the plane is that one http://www.me109.info/display.php?a=e&fid=4625 or that one http://www.me109.info/display.php?a=e&fid=1562

...

Jim P. · #9 14th January 2012, 00:41

Lippert also claimed his 18th on 22-Jun-41 at 04.18, an I-17 nordöstlich Wizna. This was 3 minutes after #17 at 04.15. This wouldn't be from the Balkans, but from the first sorties of 'Barbarossa'. So again taking the 5 Legion Condor claims out of the list, it seems odd that the machine would only display 17 claims, but #18 could have been left off for any number of reasons. If the 5 LC claims are included then the photo was likely taken between 7-Sep and 17-Sep-40. Of note is that Lippert's 109E WNr. 4148 from the Balkan campaign has a row of 21 claims - probably his 16 in WWII up to that time and the 5 LC claims?

markjsheppard · #10 14th January 2012, 01:41

Franck

Could be his 17th victory after 17th Sept 1940. A number of Aces had their Spanish claims included on their tallies. Difficult to tell whether this photo is late summer 1940 or early summer 1941. Even the camouflage (though early 1940) sometimes carried through till later.

Not sure what plans Jerry Yagen has for when 2023 is finally finished. He knew how she looked when lost with JG5 but now he has a more interesting scheme to work on!!

Great to see.

MS

Jim has said the same. I think the Spanish claims are included and this was a photo from Sept 1940.

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