First aerial kill on 1.9.1939, any document?

[Marius]

Hello all,

does somebody know the exact time of the first aerial kill achieved over Krakau by Lt.Neubert, member of I./StG 2?

According to a Jägerblatt issue it was on 6.00 hours, but this seems not to be true...

Thanks for any info,
Marius

[VtwinVince]

According to material I obtained from Mr. Neubert, his victory took place around 0515, whilst returning from a sortie against Krakau airfield.

[Marius]

5.15 is not possible, but surely 6.15. What do you mean?

Marius

[Empiricist]

Originally Posted by Marius

5.15 is not possible

Yes, night air combats did not take place then. On September 1st the sunrise at Cracow is 5.47.

[Marius]

Due to Polish documents the first bombing of Krakau`s airfield began at 5.20 hours. Due to German documents at 5.29 hours. It was done by KG 77 and was continued until 6.00 hours.

After KG 77 appeared the formation of Ju 87`s I./StG 2 (with Lt.Neubert). Due to Polish documents the second bombing began at 6.14 hours. So Lt. Neubert could have shot down the Polish fighter appr. between 6.15-6.20 hours. This would confirm the "5.15" - surely "6.15" (??) hours given by Neubert himself.

After this occured the well known aerial fighting between Gnys and 2 Do 17E`s of 7./KG 77. But it seems again, more than ever, that we have here a wonderful fairytale. Gnys could not shoot at bombers which since appr. 15-45 minutes were no more in the Krakau area!

Marius

[hihotte]

Holá Gentlemen, could the discrepancy of time difference be the fact that Germany at 1939 had use the Sommerzeit and Poland used Normalzeit? I would like to point to Hitler´s infamous speach in the Reichstag later on 1st September where he said: since 5.45 we now return fire..., in allied Newspapers the same speach was quoted as: since 4.45 we now....
cheers
Horst Schmidt

[Empiricist]

Before WWII Poland measured time according to time zone at 30° E. Also summer time was changed in this country. Today's sunrise at 5.47am at Cracow on September 1st is the same as pre-WWII 5.47am sunrise at that place.

[Franek Grabowski]

Originally Posted by Empiricist

Also summer time was changed in this country.

That is an outstanding find, considering there was no time change in Poland since 1922.

[Marius]

Hitler did just a mistake with his "5.45".

In every original German document you will find X-Zeit: 4.45 hours.
I compared many combat hours, no difference. German 4.45 was Polish 4.45 also.

Marius

[Marius]

his victory took place around 0515,

Was this info in a letter written by Neubert? Date of the letter?

Thanks,
Marius