Bf.109E-3 (wnr. 1512); Bf. 109E- (?) (wnr.2312)

[Andreas Brekken]

Hi.

The location in my loss record is written exactly as it is in the original loss record. During WWII there was no airfield called 'Bergen' in Norway.

If the location had been for example 'Bei Bergen' it would be another discussion.

We have Bergen-op-Zoom and we have Bergen in Germany (Saxony) - I do not know if there was an airfield at the latter location.

Regards,
Andreas B

[Mr Schmitt]

Originally Posted by Andreas Brekken

Hi.

The location in my loss record is written exactly as it is in the original loss record. During WWII there was no airfield called 'Bergen' in Norway.

If the location had been for example 'Bei Bergen' it would be another discussion.

We have Bergen-op-Zoom and we have Bergen in Germany (Saxony) - I do not know if there was an airfield at the latter location.

Regards,
Andreas B

Hi Andreas,

I hope you do not mind me asking, but is it possible to see a copy of this page from this document (Original Luftwaffe Loss Record)? It would relieve all doubt.

I only ask that because sometimes people offer information that is from books written after the WWII and this information is not always 100% correct. As in some misinterpretation what has been said in this example from other posts.

I don't want to offend anybody by saying the above, but just like to see the actual information source. This way all doubt is taken away.

Many Thanks and Kind Regards

[Andreas Brekken]

Hi.

Please see the attached scan from the original loss record. Note also that the loss is filed under the Luftflotte 3 header - thus it is not likely that it occured under Luftflotte 5 jurisdiction (Norway/Northern Finnland).

Regards,
Andreas B

[Mr Schmitt]

Originally Posted by Andreas Brekken

Hi.

Please see the attached scan from the original loss record. Note also that the loss is filed under the Luftflotte 3 header - thus it is not likely that it occured under Luftflotte 5 jurisdiction (Norway/Northern Finnland).

Regards,
Andreas B

Hi Andreas,
That is good to see. That puts to away any doubt - Well done.

Thanks Mr Schmitt

[Hans Nauta]

Hi Andreas and Mr Schmitt,

Actually there is a THIRD airfield called Bergen. It's just west of the city of Alkmaar and in the province North-Holland in The Netherlands at roughly 52o38’48”N, 04o41’27”E. That’s the airfield mentioned in the GQM returns.

To make things more difficult, this airfield was sometimes abbreviated by the Germans as Bergen am S. (Bergen am See) while Bergen op Zoom was abbreviated as Bergen o. Z. Needless to say both can easily be mixed up, not only now, but also 70 years ago!

Erg/JG54 was also located at this airfield, so Bergen in Norway is not relevant, neither is Bergen op Zoom.

Anyway, I’m pretty sure that Wnr 1512 crash landed near Bergen as I have a clear picture of that. The mishap occurred 600 metres south west of the most south west corner of the airfield.

Hope to have clarified the matter,

Hans

[Mr Schmitt]

Originally Posted by Hans Nauta

Hi Andreas and Mr Schmitt,

Actually there is a THIRD airfield called Bergen. It's just west of the city of Alkmaar and in the province North-Holland in The Netherlands at roughly 52o38’48”N, 04o41’27”E. That’s the airfield mentioned in the GQM returns.

To make things more difficult, this airfield was sometimes abbreviated by the Germans as Bergen am S. (Bergen am See) while Bergen op Zoom was abbreviated as Bergen o. Z. Needless to say both can easily be mixed up, not only now, but also 70 years ago!

Erg/JG54 was also located at this airfield, so Bergen in Norway is not relevant, neither is Bergen op Zoom.

Anyway, I’m pretty sure that Wnr 1512 crash landed near Bergen as I have a clear picture of that. The mishap occurred 600 metres south west of the most south west corner of the airfield.

Hope to have clarified the matter,

Hans

Hi Hans,

Really good information :0) You are very specific. Can I ask how you have the knowledge of the exact location on the Airfield?
Do you have some pictures or Luftwaffe documentation referring to this?

Regards Mr Schmitt

[Mr Schmitt]

Perhaps also We can unfold the mystery of this Aircraft wnr. 1512 being flown in 1940 by JG54. Can any member add to this?

[Hans Nauta]

Hello Mr Schmitt,

I'm quite familiair with the former airfield Bergen, having now 1.300+ pictures and documents with regard to the history of that airfield.

I think it's not a real mystery regarding Wnr 1512. It's not unusual that aircraft served with several units. E./JG54 left airfield Bergen at 15th November 1940, 1./JG1 arrived there at 27th December 1940. Perhaps Wnr 1512 was in revision or repairs when E./JG54 left and went from one to the other unit on the same airfield.

Regards
Hans

[Mr Schmitt]

Originally Posted by Hans Nauta

Hi Andreas and Mr Schmitt,

The mishap occurred 600 metres south west of the most south west corner of the airfield.

Hans

Hi Hans,

Please can you give more information as to how you know Exactly where 1512 crashed. Do you have a photograph of the crash?

Thanks

[Hans Nauta]

Hello Mr Schmitt,

The situation on the photo is still recognizable nowadays. The location has been confirmed by a farmer who's parental farm is visible on the picture.

Regards,
Hans

P.S. PM sent