Ju52/3m(See)

[obdl3945]

Hi...

I'm wondering if anyone out there can help with my query. In Karl Ries' book The Luftwaffe, A Photographic Record 1919-1945 (Batsford), at the top of page 190, there is a photograph of a Ju52 floatplane which was apparently used during the landings on Leros on and after 12 November, 1943. This machine has an undecipherable parent Geschwader code in a light colour (grey?), which is 1/5th the size of the remainder of the code, HJ, the 'H' possibly being yellow and the 'J' black. The code on the left side of the rudder is 'Is' - these two letters sitting next to each other and the 'S' being slightly smaller in size - and underneath is the letter 'H', all of which are possibly also in yellow. A unit emblem is evident on the forward fuselage, positioned between the front of the canopy and the centreline engine, but again, is unfortunately undecipherable. A white Mediterranean theatre fuselage band is positioned immediately in front of the horizontal tailplane. There is also a high and very visible demarkation line between the dark greens and pale blue camouflage colours on the floats.

Can anyone determine for me, which unit this machine may have operated with, and what the parent Geschwader code was? Also, if the unit emblem could be identified, I would be most grafteful.

Thanks in advance...

Paul

[Peter D Evans]

Hi Paul,

The same photo appears on page 153 of "Transporter, Luftwaffe Transport Units 1943-45, Volume 2" by M.Pegg [Classic. 2006] and is captioned as:

"In Dec'43, Ju52/3m floatplanes were operated with floatplane Staffel of TG4, to which LTSta(See) 1 was later attached. Later LTSta(See) 1 was absorbed into TG 4 and became 17.Staffel. However, as TG 4 was known to have used Roman numerals in the tactical code to indicate the Gruppe, it would seem that even after re-designation, some aircraft of 17./TG 4 may have been attached to I./TG 4."

With regards the fuselage codes, even though the image in the Classic book is larger than that of the Ries volume, its impossible to determine the first two letters. As for the second two, I'd guess at HJ, but even the last letter is not that clear either!

Cheers
Peter D Evans
LEMB Administrator

[obdl3945]

Hi, Peter...

Thanks for that information. It is very helpful. I also notice that Rosch's Luftwaffe Codes, Markings & Units 1939-1945 (Schiffer), page 361 shows another aircraft with the second part of the code as 'BJ'. This is attributed to TG4 during 1943 in the Balkans, and the full code is given as G6+BJ. The 'G6' element of the code is also reduced to 1/5th of standard size and in a light colour, as previously described for 'HJ' above, so I imagine there is a good possibility that it's from the same unit.

I would really like to know what this unit's emblem was. Rosch also confirms that 17.Staffel/TG4 was formed from Lufttransportstaffel (See) 1, so would anyone perhaps have an idea of the insignia? Was it unique to 17.Staffel (and/or therefore presumably IV.Gruppe, TG4) or was it perhaps a carry forward from the previous LTSta. (See) 1 ?

Regards...

Paul

[byron-]

Hi Paul,

As far as i know, in the fight of Leros participated the following transport units:

1) TG 2 with 1., 5. and 7. Staffel
2) TG 4 with 2. and 6. Staffel

All Ju 52 of TG 4 had as first code letters G6, so i am surprised about the letters you mentioned (Is)

[Peter D Evans]

I think Paul is referring to the Is part of the rudder tactical code and not the first part of the fuselage code.

With regards the emblem, there is a second in flight photo of what appears to be the same G6+HJ (complete with IsH rudder code) on the next page of the same publication I made mention of in my previous post. However, I'm still unable to provide positive identification of the emblem! The fact that no emblem has been reproduced for TG4 in "Luftwaffe Emblems, 1939-45" by B.Ketley & M.Rolfe [Hikoki, 1998] makes positive ID even harder...

Cheers
Peter D Evans
LEMB Administrator

[obdl3945]

Hi, Byron/Peter...

Byron, sorry about the possible confusion regarding the codes, but Peter was correct in saying I was referring to the tactical rudder codes when I mentioned 'Is'. Thanks, though, for providing the information about the units. That was helpful.

Peter, and/or anyone else... unfortunately I dont have a copy of the publication you mention. Is the emblem sufficiently clear to be described? A long shot, I know, but at least it might give me a pointer.

Thanks again to you both for your contributions.

Regards...

Paul

[Peter D Evans]

I've reproduced the image below [source "Transporter, Volume 2" by M.Pegg, Classic, 2006] which you already have, but is larger and clearer than the Ries example. I've also taken the liberty to post the image and a close-up of the emblem on the LEMB here in an effort to see if any of our emblem collectors have further examples...

Cheers
Peter D Evans
LEMB Administrator

[obdl3945]

Hi, Peter...

Thank you for that. I'll keep an eye on the LEMB site as well...

Paul