Luftwaffe Loss ...a P38 Lightning

[Stig Jarlevik]

[quote=Maciej Góralczyk;313556]Lockheed construction numbers recorded with small digits on the nose can be seen throughout the entire production run, I've seen them on Js as well - in such cases the last digits of the USAAF serial number are sometimes superimposed with large digits over the small c/n - see example here: https://www.americanairmuseum.com/aircraft/21474


The photo in question might be found in 'Ali Straniere in Italia vol.6' p.7 and Avions No.210 p.24 (perhaps also in other sources, but I have these two publications at hand). It clearly isn't a J or L as it does not have the chin distinctive for these versions, nor a recon variant. /QUOTE]

Ah yes, one of those. Indeed a Lockheed c/n. However whenever you can view a complete aircraft, that is see both the tail number AND the nose number, they basically always correspond. I have plenty of those.

Also looked in my copy of Ali Vol 6 page 7 and I agree it is a Lockheed number and not a USAAF s/n. Only the digits 67 are readily visible. 7167? Could well be. The date of the US loss is said to be 12 June 1943.
Looking in MAW 4 they have a 3 PRG ('P-38' s/n unknown) flown by 2/Lt Hartle as lost that day. Aircraft captured and pilot POW.
Since the aircraft in the photo is not a PR version, the question arises, did the PRGs also have pure fighter aircraft at their disposal?
The Italians further complicate the situation by stating (on page 69) "that USAAF archives reveal s/n 43-2439 was reported missing (that day I presume) but no details are given about the unit and the theater of operations". The booklet also connect this aircraft to the German T9+XB.

I don't have any P-38/F-5 IARC but I have looked at many others, and it is rare indeed for any of them to mention any unit.
Again I agree it would be interesting to see the cards for both of them, but 43-2439 should correspond to c/n 322-3548 and that is certainly not what we can read on the nose of the aircraft!

Cheers
Stig

[Snautzer]

Ebay p-38 german markings crashed https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/thread...3#post-1548916

[Alex Smart]

Thank you both gentlemen for the swift response.
It was "??67" so could be 7167 as Maciej suggests.

So-
If it is 7167(Maciej's) then it was 42-12733.

Which landed in error at Capoterra on 12th June 1943 that is believed to have become T9+XB.

Your thought's ?
Alex

[Stig Jarlevik]

....and where is the photo?
Cheers
Stig

[Alex Smart]

Hello Gentlemen,
So sorry my error, just found my bit of paper where I wrote down the number. I was ??67" as Maciej said.
I have edited my earlier post.
Yes I think that that was the book that Maciej has mentioned.
And to confirm that it was "small" numbers 7167 think would have been in yellow on camouflaged surface

322-7167 which as pointed out by Stig was 42-12733,

P38G-1
Contract AC21217, a/c serials 42-12687 - 42-12766.
322-7121 - 222-7200
Total of 80 a/c.
Not an F-5,
They were -
F5A-1
42-12667 - 42-12686 (7101 - 7120) 20 a/c which were ex P-38F-5's.
(ref: Roy Cross Lightning by Kookaburra).

I have looked on line at 1st,14th and 82nd FG's aircraft numbers but could not find a match. IIRC the pilot was made POW and was with the 82nd FG, can you confirm this please ?

Alex.

[Alex Smart]

Just for info and ref.
From Roy Cross's book.
More possibilities.
Early P-38 and F-4 @ F-5's "67's".

P-38D - 40-796 - 122 -2267
P-38E - 41-2249 - 222- 5467
P-38F - 41-2349 - 222-5567
P-38F-1 - 41-7540 - 222-5667
P-38F-5 - 42-12633 - 322-7067
P-38F-13 - 43-2058 - 322-3167
P-38F-15 - 43-2158 - 3267
P-38G-1 - 42-12733 - 322-7167
P-38G- 5 - 42-12824 - 322-967
P-38G-10 - 42-12922 - 322-1067
P-38G-10 - 42-13034 - 322-7467
P-38G-10 - 42-13133 - 322-7567
P-38G-10 - 42-13333 - 322-7667
P-38G-10 - 42-13437 - 322-7767
P-38G-10 - 42-13527 - 322-7867
P-38G-15 - 43- 2258 - 322 - 3367
P-38G-15 - 43- 2558 - 322-3667
F-4- 1 - 41-2149 - 5367
F-5B-1 - 42- 67356 - 1867

Alex

[Stig Jarlevik]

Originally Posted by edNorth

Look at cowling, NOT G-model (that was same as P-38F), but is JKL version.

Back to drawing board please.

Don't know which photo you are looking at Ed
But the one which carries "71"67 on the nose is certainly either an F or G.
Certainly not any J-L which had the much larger chin-radiator.

Cheers
Stig

[Maciej Góralczyk]

Originally Posted by edNorth

Look at cowling, NOT G-model (that was same as P-38F), but is JKL version.

Back to drawing board please.

What photo do you mean? The Italian P-38 whose several photos might be found in the two aforementioned sources is obviously not an J-L, please don't move the discussion into muddy waters.

EDIT: ah, ok, that photo has nothing to do with this thread, it shows F-5E s/n 44-23725 as T9+MK of 2./Versuchsverband Ob.d.L.

Getting back to the subject, I am quite sure that the first two digits as seen on the photo of the Italian machine are 71 (BTW, period colour photos of early Ligthnings show that c/n digits were painted in NG 43 rather than yellow mentioned in one of previous posts). I have just a few IARCs for P-38s that served in MTO and at least these ones do include info on their unit assignments, so perhaps the IARC for 42-12733 may bring us the necessary info.

[Stig Jarlevik]

Indeed Ed

However that is not the one we discuss on the present topic.

Cheers
Stig