White bar(s) on wings and rudder of bombers

[Thomas H]

Hi all,

What I understand from the information found online and in books:

- "one" bar means I./Gruppe..."two" bars means II./Gruppe...etc.
- it was only used by the Stab of a Gruppe as tactical marking.
- it was used only during the BoB.

My questions:

- what is de reason for using the bar(s) on just one wing or both wings?
- only saw photos of He111 and Ju88, did other types of planes also use these markings?
- Which KG's used these markings?
- Was it only used during night missions?

Any other info on the use of them is appreciated.

thanks in advance.

Regards, Thomas

[obdl3945]

Hi, Thomas...

I have read that some believe these markings to denote a particular group etc, but I'm not entirely sure about that. Examples of all of the three major bomber types during the Battle of Britain - He111, Ju88 and Do17 - carrying these markings are well documented:

He111, A1+DA, Geschwaderstab KG53, three horizontal bars on upper right wing, and three vertical bars either side of the rudder.

Ju88, 3Z+HN, 5./KG77, one horizontal bar upper left wing, and one vertical bar on left side of the rudder only.

Do17Z, F1+FS, 8./KG76, one vertical bar on upper left wing, and one horizontal bar across both fins and rudders aligned with the top of the fin.

Clearly these do not equate to Gruppe markings as the He111 was a Geschwaderstab (not Gruppenstab) machine, the Ju88 belonged to II.Gruppe (5.Staffel) and the Do17Z belonged to III.Gruppe (8.Staffel). In my opinion, they were more likely to have been formation markings used to help the unit 'form up' in the air. I also doubt they would have remained visible for night operations as they would have been too obvious. If they existed into the later half of 1940/early 1941 for nocturnal missions, they almost certainly would have been overpainted to help conceal the machine. I have only ever seen them used during the Battle of Britain.

I have seen images of aircraft carring bars on both wings, but again, I imagine this is simply to better aid visibility.

Hope this is useful to you.

Kindest regards,

Paul

[piero]

Hi,
in 'Model Aircraft Monthly'- October 2004, is a useful article (15 pages) about this argument.
HTH
Giampiero (piero) from Verona

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

IIRC reports of at least one bomber that crashed during the latter part of the BoB described these bars on one a/c as "pink," although they appear more white in all the photos I have showing these in the EOE Data Base. From the evidence I've seen, these formation markings did not appear until at least early Sept., 1940, at the earliest.

Can anyone supply me with a copy of the article that Giampiero refers to above, perhaps as a PDF?

Regards,

[Clint Mitchell]

I would also be very grateful for a copy of this article.

[piero]

Hi Clint and Larry,
check your PM !

Giampiero

[piero]

Hi Larry,
it's impossible for me to send a PM, because :

Larry Hickey has exceeded their stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until they clear some space

piero

[Jim P.]

Larry, I'm pretty certain I sent you this article several years ago - tried PMing you, but your mailbox is full.

[Thomas H]

Thanks for your reply Paul. Also thanks to Larry and Piero.

Maybe you guys can also help me with this one.

Only info I have.

Ende 1940, Vanderville bei Lille, Bruchlandung beim Nachtflug (Nightflight)

three bars on rudder and three bars on both wings. You can also see a white or yellow "A" on the fuselage. ??+A?

Is it possible to id this He111?

Regards, Thomas

[obdl3945]

Hi, Thomas...

Thanks for the interesting photo. Sadly, I can't identify the unit although elements of KG53 were based around Lille, if I remember correctly. Perhaps a starting point...

I find the caption unusual, stating that this was a crash landing during a nightflight. As I mentioned in the posting earlier, in my opinion it would be unusual to have white bars on a machine engaged in night operations, as the black overpainting of codes and markings was normally very thorough and with the specific intention of minimising or removing any light coloured element that might be visible to opposing aircraft.

Regards,

Paul