German Data Plates

[thomasrosen]

Hi eveyone,
I have bought somedata plates when visiting the Murmansk area almost 20 years ago. They are very hard to read and maybe someone coul tell me how to get more history around them.
1. Siebel Flugzeugwrke GmBH, Bauteil-Nr. (two stamps), BA199 and one not readable. Zeichng.-Nr. 88 503-124. Flugz.-Must. A 4
2.ATG Allgemeine Tranportanlagen Gesellschft M.B.H. Maschinenfabrik Leipzig W2. Lizenz Junkers. Serie. 0521 11 pp. Zeichen 88357.
F.M. B (stamp) 2 42 (42 difficult to read).
3. Weser Flugzeubau. trie 1345 12. Zeichnr. unreadable. Monat (two stamps) and 4 41
Could someone pls give some more light on this. Also a question is this genuine plates or did the russians manufature "old ones" to make some cash.
Best regards
Thomas

[harrison987]

Hi,

The first one is 100% from a Ju88 A-4. Most likey for a wing component. I do not have a Ju88 parts list, so not sure...

The other two are most likely Ju88 as well...

In my years of collecting, I have never seen a re-manufactured data plate. I suspect becasue there is no money in it. Recently, prices have gotten high on them, but that is usually for main plates. Component plates fetch $30-100...depending on what aircraft they are from.

Mike

[stephen f. polyak]

Actually, many types of Luftwaffe airplane plates have been reproduced, including main plates. Over the years, these have been offered both properly as reproductions and, either unknowingly or unscrupulously, as originals. Some repros have been used on on warbird restorations (static and flying). None of the reproduction plates I am aware of have come from Russia. There have been more than enough originals there to meet demand. Years ago, Russian entrepreneurs stripped plates from airframe parts , mounted them with framed photos of the source aircraft, and sold them. I've two such from Bf 110 M8+ZE.

I think Mike is right about the first two being Ju 88, but many a Wesser plate from Russia has been Ju 87.

Can we see pictures???

[T.A.S.]

Unfortunately a lot of dataplates will be reproduced...
Here on Ebay Germany you will find a guy who sells LOTS of Dataplates of "Ju 88 G1". Sometimes with some original equipment plates sometimes alone. He comes from the vicinity of Dessau and i think he had found a package of plates and now he make "his own original Ju88 plates"

Here are 3 absolutely original dataplates from Ju 88 A1, A4 and C2...

[harrison987]

Yes, reproduction plates have been made for static displays and restoration projects...but those were specifically made as repro for those projects.

I was referring to "purposefully" reproducing plates with the intention of defrauding someone. That I have never seen...



Mike

[David Ransome]

Hi,

I can say that a large number of plates have been replicated over the years for a variety of reasons, some deliberately fraudulent. In one case that I was involved with the maker took a copy of a photo of a plate from a well known book on the Battle of britain and created an etched plate to whiuch he added various stamped numbers, using a 1930s letter/number punch set. The plate was mounted with some small nondescript bits and pieces (and these weren't from an aircraft!) in a frame and sent to auction. When all was traced back it turned out that the person was doing plates for various things such as old cars and tractors, mainly for sale to the US and Australia, retailed via an individual from Lancashire in the UK. The actual maker has since moved to Southern Ireland (Eire) and is believed to have retired.

The same two had also introduced an extremely large number of superb etched blade Third Reich edged weapons including daggers and bayonets onto the market although this particular activity ceased c.1985. In this case genuine items with plain blades were 'enhanced'.

It was patently clear that it was no great hassle to make up bromides/masters to create these etched items. The give-aways were usually use of modern materials and paints/laquers, incorrect spelling or fonts, and general lack of age - although delicate scrunching, dunking in Coke or burial in the garden for a while apparently helps!

Having said all that regarding possible fake plates however, I can also say that I have seen photos of an He111 crash site from northern Russia where the parts were cleared fairly quickly of undergrowth and came up looking just like those of the Ju88 shown in the 'new Ju88 found' posts!

Regards,

David

[bsaden]

I am also verfy interested in these plates, having a Ju88 plate in my possession (see 'Ju88 A-1' thread 21st July)
My plate is identical to the middle photo posted by TAS, and strangely, has the same 'paint chip' shape on the top spike of the Henschel badge?!
I have no doubt my plate is genuine, my father has had it since the war, and told us he retrieved it.....
I am a complete novice, but would love to know more about these and how best to research such things.

[T.A.S.]

The top spike of the logo have no "paint chip...
This is a "stylized" Eagles head
The shown plates are 100% original with proved "history"

[bsaden]

Thank you. That is very interesting and something I would never have noticed! I have learnt a lot in a short time. Endlessly fascinating.....