Hauptmann Gustav Rodel's G-4 help please

[Stig Jarlevik]

OK Guys

Jim P, thanks for the better translation of the crashlanding. The photos in my source looks much more like your translation.

F19,do you have the source I gave? I don't have the Osprey volume you quote. If you have you should quite easily be able to compare the two sources and say if they are the same aeroplane or not. If you DON'T, what does the aeroplane look like in Osprey? Are the triple chevrons visible? Is the small digit 4 visible? Is any unit markings visible?

According to the British source who found the abandoned WNr 10645 only fuselage parts was documented as remaining. No unit could be stated by them either.

As said earlier I have still doubts that the WNr listed as 10645 is the same one as we are loking at in our various photos, but...

Cheers
Stig

[F19Gladiator]

Originally Posted by F19Gladiator

Stig, in post No.4 above I put in a ref on the port side:
"Aviation Elite Units 12, Jagdgeschwader 27 'Afrika', John Weal, Page 89:...."

Also regarding capture: One photo clearly shows a P-40 in the background marked CU o ?

Sorry P-40 ac code shall be "CY" not "CU"

[Jesters-Ink]

It's ok Stig the PSD on my HD is already fixed with no unit badge and one or two others too.
I'll update the image here as soon as more details are known about the pilot, base, works number and date.

Other examples of artwork can be found here

[F19Gladiator]

Change of direction regarding the P-40 in the background.......it could be "CV" and not "CY" on the pic why it would match with No 3 RAAF Squadron, which fought both in Libya, Sicily and Italy as far as I can find out via the web.

[F19Gladiator]

Hi,

I haven’t given up on this riddle yet -The true identity of this Bf 109.

Going through old books I found this image published in “German Aircraft Markings 1939-1945” by K.A. Merrick, Ian Allan, 1977.
The three aircraft visible at the same photo might assist in where and when the photo was taken.
(In the photo caption it is mentioned that this photo was taken at Catania.)

Aircraft 1. Bf 109 <<<4+
Aircraft 2. Ju 88A-4(?) L1+EH from 1./LG1. “White E”, with partly black camouflage.
Aircraft 3. P-40 marked “CV” which indicates No 3 RAAF Squadron
"CV" would match with No 3 RAAF Squadron, which fought both in Libya, Sicily and Italy as far as I can find out.

(Not to be misled by the Ju 88 L1+EH, I noted there is a photo of another Ju 88 with this very same identity published on P. 326 in “Luftwaffe Camouflage and Markings Vol Two, K.A. Merrick, 2005, Classic Colours.
According to it’s caption this other Ju 88 A “crashed in the Libyan desert in December 1941” and shows a camouflage void of black camouflage paint. )

Seems as if Mr. Merrick is sitting on several photos of this Bf 109 since he has published different photos in his books in 1977 as well as in 2005.

[F19Gladiator]

Hello,
I have updated my post #45 above with a lot more stuff, instead of scattering the info over several new postings.
Work continues.......
Br
Goran

[stefaan]

Hi Guys.
I found new info after phoning a 24 sqdn gunner that was in 24 SAAF.
He has a similar photo. He says it was taken at LG 99, which was just behind Alexandria after the push at Alamein.
24 sqdn was with 12 sqdn in 3 Wing SAAF, and will have shared bases.
Hope it helps
Stefaan

[Jesters-Ink]

Wow its not been that long since I checked back here for more info and seen no updates, but tonight I see there is plenty, many thanks guys for your input.

The profile for this AC is still on hold whilst all the data is being gathered.

I have a new headache I would like to pose to you gentlemen seeing as you tend to know your onions.

I've been asked to produce 2 profiles of "Grafs" Bf109G-5-6, whilst he was with JG/50r.

After talking with many people on this subject this is what I have so far.
Works numbers would be a real handy thing to have for both AC if anyone out there has then?

Once again, thanks for the info on the triple chevron white 4.



Hi Goran, I have read through all of your post regarding <<< white 4 with much interest, you have covered quite a bit of ground with your last post.
I’d be happy to continue discussing this further through e-mail or msn if you are interested?

Here is the update on Trip Chev Wht 4---->
I'm with Goran, I think the white band on the nose is from top to bottm, it looks like the lower engine cover has been removed.


And a new Bf109G-6.

[Jesters-Ink]

Thanks guys.
In the end I had to put my trust in some of the large names getting it right as far as Grafs aircraft goes.

***F19-Gladiator, you have put so much effort into "White 4" I think it only fair I offer you a print on the house, so which would you like?***

Here is an updated list of works ready to go to press.

[F19Gladiator]

Hi 'Jesters-Ink'!
I'd go for the "White Tripple Chevron 4" of course!

Very generous of you! I'll PM you my email address etc.

I am still following the trace of the Ju 88 L1+EH seen next to the Bf 109 in question, trying to locate the airfield if possible. I posted a question over at LEMB forum recently but no one seems to be able to help out yet. I'll come back regarding this Ju 88 connection later....

I believe a big thank you shall go to Stefaan in South Africa as he was kind to share some very interesting information with us which are key elements in my "armchair research" and ID theory of this Bf 109. Thanks Stefaan!

Cheers
Goran