RLM colours please.

[amiers]

Attachment 2166


hi all does anybody know the correct RLM'S for this 109?

[obdl3945]

Hi...

The thumbnail you provide seems a little 'bright' in its reproduction, but I would suggest the greens are perhaps RLM70/71 (schwarzgrün and dunkelgrün respectively). Undersurfaces would be RLM 65 hellblau, with yellow RLM04 cowling, wingtips and fuselage band and white RLM21 spinner, probably with an RLM70 backplate. The green of the 'Grünherz' emblem would have been RLM25.

A few things to bear in mind: firstly, the profile you provide is of a machine from JG54, who were specialists in experimenting with unorthodox and non-standard colour scheme applications; secondly, I suspect that one of the greens could actually have been RLM02 'RLM Grau', or a mixed shade incorporating that colour; also note that some RLM shades did change during the lifetime of the Luftwaffe, although they retained their number - for example, the 1938 shade of RLM65 would be different from the 1941-onwards shade.

If you're able to obtain copies, then I personally think that Luftwaffe Fighter Aircraft in Profile and its companion volume More Luftwaffe Fighter Aircraft in Profile by Sundin and Bergstrom (Schiffer), give an excellent impression of fighter colour schemes. The first thing I noticed about the second volume was the 'toning down' of colours for scale effect on the profiles, and although both books are first class, I really think the second volume has captured the colour tones very accurately... just a personal opinion, though... . Some of these authors' material has reached the inernet, I believe. I can't remember where exactly I've seen them, but I'm sure you could 'Google' your way to finding them.

In case you're interested in obtaining them, the ISBNs are: 0-7643-0291-4 and 0-7643-1559-5.

Hals und Beinbruch...!

[SES]

Hi,
This is a great on-line resource:
http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/d...chartswm_1.htm
bregds
SES

[amiers]

i have found that the lighter colour is RLM 83. i think the other might be 81 or 82?

[obdl3945]

Hi, Amiers...

I openly admit fighters aren't my strong point, but I'd be more than a little suprised if any of the greens were in the 80s range, given that the thumbnail was of a Bf109F, possibly 1941 or 1942 vintage, and that the RLM80s range of colours were only officially announced on 1 July, 1944. Even then, it took a little while for the changes to percolate down to the units.

I can appreicate someone not believing them to be representative of RLM70/71, but as I mentioned earlier, this unit specialised in the unorthodox and non-standard, so I would be very cautious of stating exactly what shade they're supposed to represent.

SES's link to colour charts is indeed a very good one, and the colours there are, in my mind, much more representative of authentic shades. Even here, though, it should be remembered that if experimentation with paints and colour schemes is taking place, then quite possibly the colours used would not match to any paint chart. However, on the basis of the chart shown at the link provided by SES, my money would still be on RLM70/71 if we're starting from the point of a definite colour.

Thanks, SES, too, for that link...

Kindest regards...

[SES]

My pleasure. Maybe that link ought to be sticky.
bregds
SES

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by amiers

i have found that the lighter colour is RLM 83. i think the other might be 81 or 82?

Those colours were not issued until later in the war, too late for the Bf 109 F in front line service.

[Evgeny Velichko]

Just 3 cents, gents.

1. Soviet VVS HAD NO BROUN colour in theyr camouflage at all. AMT-1 was sand/gray (NOT broun), but it got used only from october 1943.

2. JG 54's Bf109 and Fw190 used RLM79 mixed with RLM02 for theyr "Broun" colour. "Green" were RLM 70 (used with Bf109), RLM 71 (used together with RLM 70 in Fw190) and RLM 25 (Used by II./JG 54's Fw190 in 1943).

3. "Soviet paint", used by JG 54, is very ald myth, based on speculation.

4. The same situation with Fw190 of JG 51. They used the same mixture for theyr "Broun".

[Christian Schulz]

Actually Claes Sundin made profiles for "Black Cross - Red Star" Vol 3 which had JG 54 aircraft showing both RLM 70 and AMT-4 (i.e. Nowotny's Bf 109 F).

[Evgeny Velichko]

Originally Posted by Christian Schulz

Actually Claes Sundin made profiles for "Black Cross - Red Star" Vol 3 which had JG 54 aircraft showing both RLM 70 and AMT-4 (i.e. Nowotny's Bf 109 F).

Usure of AMT-1, AMt-4 in Liftwaffe is speculation only.

1. Germans didnt accept Soviet colours because of its quality. German aviation paint were matt, but Soviet - a bit glossing, and in flight it shined on sun and demasking.

2. Also, hundreds of aircrafts (both German and Finnish) were painted in new color. You may just calculate how much paint Germans had to "capture" to paint theyr aircrafts