109G-6 or later with 20mm-Gondolas in the East?

[yogybär]

Does anyone have a picture or other "proof" that such planes were really used in 1943 or later? (I don't mean any memoirs or similar stuff)

I was looking w/o success so far...

[Juha]

Hello Yogy
Finns got them in 1944 and used them a short while before gondolas were removed. In books there are pictures, sorry, I don't have scanner. And I recall at least one combat report which explicitely mentioned that the kill was achieved with "gunboat" G-6, in memoirs several stories on use of them, especially against Il-2s.

Juha

[yogybär]

Juha, thx. That all refers to Fins? Do you know why they removed the Gondolas?

[George Hopp]

Hello Yogy
Finns got them in 1944 and used them a short while before gondolas were removed. In books there are pictures, sorry, I don't have scanner. And I recall at least one combat report which explicitely mentioned that the kill was achieved with "gunboat" G-6, in memoirs several stories on use of them, especially against Il-2s.

Juha

In his "War diary" Helmut Lipfert mentions that the MK 108 was the real Il-2 killer. It just blew off the armoured panels.

Sorry, Jörg, I have looked through both of Bernd Barbas's JG 52 books, and the best I could come up with was a couple of G-2/R6s with I./JG 52.
All the best,
George

[NickM]

Originally Posted by George Hopp

In his "War diary" Helmut Lipfert mentions that the MK 108 was the real Il-2 killer. It just blew off the armoured panels.

George

The English language version of the book was a great read; and Lipfert DID say that a good hit or two by the Mk108 could even blow IL2s apart...so much so that it was hazardous to use from too close--He reported on nearly being brought down by an engine block or a half a fuselage on a couple of occasions.

NM

[Juha]

Hello Yogy
For ex Suomen Ilmavoimat Finnish Airforce VI 1944 is bi-language book, on page 88 there is a photo on MT-445 with gondolas, taken at Lappeenranta, so between June 16 and June 23. It was normally flown by SSqt Klaus Alakoski (26 kills)

Finns removed them because the general opinion was that they made plane less manoeuvrable. And there were really many Soviet fighters around during summer 44. Some pilots were fond of gondolas, at least Kössi Karhila (32 1/4 kills ) and “Tappi” Järvi (28½ kills), who claimed that that the difference was small if one used throttle skilfully, but orders were orders, and the gondolas were removed also from their planes.

Juha

[Juha]

Hello Yogy
It seems that I misunderstood your first question. Yes, all refers the FAF, the LW unit with fought with FAF in Southern Finland during Summer 44, Kampfverband Kuhlmey, was equipped mostly with Fw 190s and Ju 87s. Its only 109s were G-8 recon planes.

I gave a quick look to Andreas’ and Kjetil’s LW Fighters and Fighter-Bombers over the Far North and didn’t notice any 109G-x/R6 from later part of 43 onwards, in early part of 43 there were several G-2/R6s.

Juha

[chuckschmitz]

Some great photos of G-2/R-6s in Eric Mombeek's Eismeerjaeger Band 2. I have not seen any G-6s with gun pods operating in the Norway. I believe Lt. Ewald flew a G-6/R-6 out of Husi airfield in Romania in 1944. A quick check of my references also showed photos of G-6/R-6s flying in Italy.

Chuck

[yogybär]

Thanks, all!

Originally Posted by chuckschmitz

Some great photos of G-2/R-6s in Eric I believe Lt. Ewald flew a G-6/R-6 out of Husi airfield in Romania in 1944.

Chuck, do you have a pic or source for this? And if "YES", maybe it was "only" against the US-heavies?

[chuckschmitz]

Yogy,

My source is Aircraft Aces #3 by Lotnictwa. It is the author's contention that WNr. 163568 "yellow 11" was a G-6/R-6. Ewald was with 6/JG 52 at the time. Hope that helps. Does anyone have better info?

Chuck