Paint schemes 33 Squadron Hurricanes in Greece 1941

[biltongbru]

I would appreciate if someone could confirm if these aircraft had the tan&brown paint scheme (as in Africa) or the green/brown paint scheme.
thanks

[James A Pratt III]

Off the top of my head I'd say they were painted Dark Green/Dark Earth.

[Buckeye30]

I think you can "pay your money and take your pick"; I'm sure James is right and the majority were Dark Green-Dark Earth-Sky ( Temporate Land Scheme) though 33 brought their Hurricane Is from N. Africa and some may have been in the Desert Scheme ( Feb. 1941).
Though officially the Dark Earth-Mid Stone-Azure scheme wasn't introduced until Dec. 12 1940 with AMO A.926 ,the Mid-Stone was in use by mid-1940 in the Med., confirmed by at least one pilot on Malta and ferry pilots.
A Circular (761) was sent to contractors on 8 May 1940 listing "emergency " colours , Dark Green/ Mid Stone and Dark Earth/Mid Stone.In the event the green was replaced by brown and most photos ( but you can't always rely on the tones) seem to show green/brown. Servicing Units in N. Africa appear to have identified 2 day schemes, Tropical Land Scheme (Dark Green-Dark Earth or Dark Green-Midstone) and Desert Scheme (Dark Earth-Mid Stone).
By mid-1941 the desert colours of Azure and Mid-Stone were in production ( Memo R & M DA3 June 6) and more available, by which time 33 had retreated to Crete and then back to Africa.
The Mediterranean theatre has been a problem as the C-in C Middle East Command had authority to adapt "standard" schemes where necessary....." RAF Overseas Commands can use special colours and markings designed to suit the terrain being overflown at the discretion of the Air Officer in Chief, commanding the region".
Incidentally Air Ministry Orders described "Duck Egg Blue" and "Sky Type S " as one and the same.
Regards
Nick

[biltongbru]

Thanks Buckeye for a great reply!

[Pilot]

Buckeye- is there any options that some other colors are temporary used like the Light Mediterranean Blue or Light Earth?

Cheers

[Graham Boak]

Having spent some time peering at all the photos I can find, and playing the usual games of colour interpretation, I would confirm that the vast majority seem to have been in Temperate Land. From memory, there is one photo that appears to be in Desert, but I hesitate to state that definitely. It may have been in the interim official scheme of Tropical Land - Dark Green and Mid Stone.

However, some aircraft had the so-called "spaghetti" scheme, where the underside light colour is wrapped around the nose and the leading edge of the wing, then a streaky mottle applied of the uppersurface colours.

Undersides is probably anyone's guess. ME High Command had disapproved of the light Sky, so other colours were used. What can be seen does suggest something lighter than Mediterranean Light Blue. The term Sky Blue has been used, in which case it is probably the prewar shade, the wartime one being as pale as Sky therefore unlikely to find favour with ME HQ. It may simply be early examples of Azure Blue before the name became well known.

[biltongbru]

Originally Posted by Graham Boak

Having spent some time peering at all the photos I can find, and playing the usual games of colour interpretation, I would confirm that the vast majority seem to have been in Temperate Land. .

Graham; would you interpret this aircraft to be of the temperate land type paint scheme?



Another topic for help please; how do one interpret the ID lettering on the sides of the aircraft? any site you can recommend explaining this? thanks again.

[Buckeye30]

Srecko Light Earth was a permanent colour in the Ministry Standards and was a light part of the "shadow-shading" scheme ( Dark Earth/Light Earth/Dark Green/ Light Green) on biplanes; the lighter colours in shadow areas, above the lower wings and certain parts of the fuselage sides.The Fleet Air Arm had similar system using Extra Dark Sea Grey/Dark Sea Grey/ Dark Slate Grey/ Light Slate Grey.The Americans called this "counter-shading".
In N. Africa Light Earth was used as part of the "Emergency Desert Scheme" as per AMO.A.520 of Nov. 11 1939 (until Mid-Stone finalised).
A memo of Jan. 5 1941 ( R&M DA.2) stated that "Light Earth" was required for the Middle East ; apparently it was more used at the Egyptian end. Upper surface colours usually depended on the terrain , lower colours for altitude and role eg. ASR or PR.
The "Mediterranean Blues" ( Light and Dark) were also in the standards; by late 1942 ,Azure, Sky and Light MB were listed for undersides of day fighters ( AMO.664/42 amended) in the ME. An Appendix to AP. 1486 included also for lower surfaces, Dark Med. Blue, Medium Sea Grey, Deep Sky, PRU Blue, Sky Blue, Sky Grey ( Navy), and Night (black).
As Graham says, Sky was very light and Azure was more suitable for N. Africa but it's likely that Hurricanes (and Gladiators) in Greece in 1941 kept their Sky. It's quite possible that blues were locally mixed in Africa and there would be little opportunity for a re-paint in Greece and Crete;I believe Light Med. Blue began as a mix of Roundel Blue and White.Obviously depending on the amount of white, different shades would result.

The "NW" Hurricane is Mk.1 V7419, taken at Larissa sometime in March-April; Pat Pattle is in the photo and he was killed on 20 April. NW was 33's code, painted in a hurry and minus an aircraft letter. 33's code was later changed to "RS".
See what Graham thinks but the low-contrast camo looks like green-brown; the darker area behind the cockade matches the Dark Green part in Hawker's camo drawing (but occasionally the colours were reversed). Spinner probably kept it's Night colour. The Desert Scheme usually shows a higher contrast between colours but that's not certain, depending on film type, light or weathering. Ortho film made yellowish colours appear dark.
Regards
Nick

[Graham Boak]

I agree with Nick that the aircraft appears to be in DG/DE. I would only suggest that although the aircraft might have Sky underside, it is more likely to be in a blue of some kind. This is open to discussion: opinions obviously differ.

Mediterranean Light Blue may have started as a mix, during early trials, but it was a standardised colour prewar, and would have been available in theatre.

[biltongbru]

Thanks again guys for the input; busy with a doccumentary film on Pattle and this info is most useful.