8./JG1 - Uff. Helmut Johanning -

[mdejong]

Hi,

I am desperately looking for any information about an air combat with USAAF fighters in the area of St. Trond on 1st december 1943 (Solingen Raid) in which 8./JG1 was involved and lost 2 of its pilots.

One pilot, Uff. Helmut Johanning, survived (75% damaged) and made a belly landing around the belgium city of Mol. More I dont know however. There is less known on the III./JG1 on this day.

Do you perhaps have information on this event and this specific pilot?

Thanks.

Martin

[Leo Etgen]

Hello Martin

This is what I have on that particular loss:

1 December 1943: Unteroffizier Helmut Johanning of 8./JG 1 injured in Bf 109 G-6 "Black 7" (W.Nr. 410 098) in aerial combat, emergency landing in the Nijmegen area, 75%

I hope this helps.

Horrido!

Leo

[mdejong]

Thanks Leo.

But it is in conflict with this information I got on a forum.

Uffz. Helmut Johanning (WND) seemed to have crash-landed near Mol with its Bf 109 G-6 (damaged at 75%).


Both Johanning and Miksch flew in 8./JG1 and were according to Prien shot down in the Nijmegen area, which I personally doubt is true.

I have a wartime document (a letter to family of Miksch) from Staffelkapitaen Overhagen stating that he was found in the Albertcanal near St. Trond.

I am looking for more information regarding the loss of Miksch especially the pilot which shot down Miksch. I think that information about Johanning can lead me more in the direction.

I have some reasons to believe the 8./JG1 came in combat with elements of USAAF 56th FG near St. Trond, which claimed a tot of 4 german victims on 1st december 1943...

1. Vance Ludwig of 56th FG crashed in Merdop/AMbreson after an engagement with german fighters (2 or 3 FW 109's) near St. Trond. So elements of 56th FG were around St. Trond;
2. Johanning was, as I assume, a wingman (they flew togehter) of Miksch and Johanning crashed near Mol, so not far away from St. Trond and thats very close to the Albert Canal (were Miksch was found);
3. Lt. Foster of 56th FG claimed a FW 190 near the village of Beverloo, and that is also close to the Albertcanal / Mol.
4. On 1st. december 1943 there were 3 Bf 109 claims of 56th FG (Chistensen, Mudge and Johnson). Fred Christensen destroyed a Me109 and Ralph Johnson had a damaged Me109 in the area of South East of Roermond, which is not far away from the battle area. That could be a match with the losses of Miksch and Johanning. Mudge reported that they had an engagement with 7 Bf 109's.

Therefore I believe either Fred Christensen of Ralph Johnson shot down Miksch.

Any opinions regarding my theory, would be very appreciated....I am intensively researching the loss of this pilot ans especially I would like to know which allied fighter downed him.

Martin





Martin

[John Manrho]

I do not believe Uffz. Johanning survived the war. On my copy of the Verlustmeldung of Dec. 1st, 1943 of 8./JG 1 there is a handwritten note that he is buried at Brockeswalde Cemetery. I do not know date of death or circumstances.

[Leo Etgen]

Hello Martin

I checked the QM 6 documents and this is what is listed:

1 December 1943: Unteroffizier Helmut Johanning of III./JG 1 wounded in Bf 109 G-6 (W.Nr. 19 850) due to unknown causes at Pl.Qu. ML8/3, 75%

Note the different werknummer although I have noticed that occasionally the QM 6 has errors and so would I would rely more on the information that Prien provides. I entered the co-ordinates ML-8.3 of the Jägergradnetzkarte into the Luftwaffe Grid Map Converter at www.gyges.dk/reporting_grids.htm and the result was www.mapquest.com/maps?l=51.069444&g=5.305556 which indeed is nearer to Mol than to Nijmegen. I hope that I have done this correctly. Regarding Miksch, unfortunately the QM 6 lists both the cause and location of his loss as unknown. I hope this helps.

Horrido!

Leo

[Alain57]

Hello gentleman ,
Perhaps this can help

Date 1/12/1943
Place : the village of Bree , in the east of the province Limburg near the Dutch border
Zipcode :3960
Me Bf-109 G-6
WNr-140007
8,/JG1 Schwarze 13
Fw Miksch Alfred ( KIA )
03/01/1919 Wien ,
43 victories
Buried at the Ehrenfriedhof at the village of Brustem near St-Truiden Belgium( St-Trond in french )
Later brought to Lommel Block/Grave 21-143
Greetings
Alain57

[mdejong]

Originally Posted by Leo Etgen

Hello Martin

I checked the QM 6 documents and this is what is listed:

1 December 1943: Unteroffizier Helmut Johanning of III./JG 1 wounded in Bf 109 G-6 (W.Nr. 19 850) due to unknown causes at Pl.Qu. ML8/3, 75%

Note the different werknummer although I have noticed that occasionally the QM 6 has errors and so would I would rely more on the information that Prien provides. I entered the co-ordinates ML-8.3 of the Jägergradnetzkarte into the Luftwaffe Grid Map Converter at www.gyges.dk/reporting_grids.htm and the result was www.mapquest.com/maps?l=51.069444&g=5.305556 which indeed is nearer to Mol than to Nijmegen. I hope that I have done this correctly. Regarding Miksch, unfortunately the QM 6 lists both the cause and location of his loss as unknown. I hope this helps.

Horrido!

Leo

Thanks Leo...Thats very interesting information. You can see that the crashsite is close to the Albertcanal.

martin

[vinnie]

Originally Posted by Leo Etgen

Hello Martin

I checked the QM 6 documents and this is what is listed:

1 December 1943: Unteroffizier Helmut Johanning of III./JG 1 wounded in Bf 109 G-6 (W.Nr. 19 850) due to unknown causes at Pl.Qu. ML8/3, 75%

Note the different werknummer although I have noticed that occasionally the QM 6 has errors and so would I would rely more on the information that Prien provides.

Leo, very interesting post! Uffz. Johanning did not survive the war, but if I'm correct, he did survive this crash.
About the Werk Nr. 19850: this could very well be the correct Werknummer, since III-Gruppe JG 1 also had WerkNr. 19848, 19852 (or 19853), 19854 and 19861. Nr. 19850 would perfectly fit in between. I know that Johanning flew in 'black 4', so this must have been black 4.
It could also be 'black 7', although normally Fw. Josef Kehrle flew in black 7. His black 7 probably crashed on 3 November 1943, so it's hard to tell for sure whether Johanning did or did not fly in black 7.

But the QM 6 register could be true!

[mdejong]

Originally Posted by John Manrho

I do not believe Uffz. Johanning survived the war. On my copy of the Verlustmeldung of Dec. 1st, 1943 of 8./JG 1 there is a handwritten note that he is buried at Brockeswalde Cemetery. I do not know date of death or circumstances.

John,

Could you please post a scan of that specific Verlustmelding?

Thanks.

martin

[mdejong]

Thanks Alain, but reports with "Nijmegen" and "Bree" aren't in my opinion so accurate.

Here is the letter of Staffelkapitaen Heinz Overhagen to the parents of Alfred Miksch.

Martin