Ju-88 6/KG26 lost 26 july 1944

[martin75]

Hello,

can someone give me info on Ju-88 1H+GP lost 25 or 26 july 1944 ; two crewmembers, Uffz Horst Winkler and Uffz Heinz Rattay, made POW, one missing ; details on mission, localisation of loss, name of fourth crewmember ?

Thanks in advance. Regards

Claude

[Brian Bines]

Claude, 'K' report 401/1944 states aircraft took-off at 2030hrs, from Dole/Tavaux to attack Allied shipping in the Seine Estuary carrying two F.5B torpedos. Pilot selected a destroyer screened by a Corvette on which he made a torpedo run, at a height shown as 15m on the FuGe101 aircraft hit the sea and ditched before releasing torpedos ( given as Baie de la Seine at 2315hrs. on 26th July). Pilot claimed that following violent evasive action to avoid AA the FuGe101 was not working properly.
The mission was undertaken by a three man crew as no replacement was available for the sick gunner. Crew Ff Uffz Horst Winkler POW slightly wounded , B name and rank unknown missing, Bf Uffz Heinz Rattay POW.
'Achtung Torpedos Los' has Ogef. Heinz Bennewitz between Winkler and Rattay which suggests he was the missing B,

Regards

Brian Bines

[martin75]

All my thanks Brian !

the only problem I don't understand is that give us three crewmembers Winkler, Bennewitz and Rattay ; if plane crashed in sea, no chance for one man swimming back to german lines ; so we must think only three men in crew !

Regards

Claude

[Sue-88]

I wanted to let you know that the radio operator on this flight was my dad, Heinz Rattay. I know this is an old post. I found it doing an Internet search one day looking for info on my dad's flight crew, group, etc.

There is an explanation as to why there were only three crew members, but it's kind of involved. If anyone is interested, I can share more. It was curious to me about the Dole/Tavaux airfield, pretty sure that was disinformation. I have that they took off from Montelimar, where they were based and flew to Coganc for a briefing. Also interesting that they listed the pilot as slightly wounded and my dad as not wounded.

The pilot was in pretty bad shape, too weak to grasp the rescue line. They had already bypassed him when they picked up my dad who had broken ribs and pushed in teeth. Maybe wounded only applies to AA shots? I do know they checked and rechecked FUGe/altimeter. It showed as working but they doubted it for some reason.

The third guy was in the belly when they hit. If I understood my dad right he was the navigator/observer there to drop the torpedos kind of like a bomadier? Or maybe a gunner? (need to research that a bit) They thought he died on impact, and all the ammunition cartridges landed on top of him.

My dad tried to open the canopy when the plane hit the water but it would not pop. The plane filled up fast. He went down to the bottom to try to get out the belly hatch, but couldn't get through all the cartridges, etc. At the last possible moment, his hand struck a hole in the nose windscreen. He found out later the pilot got out that way, that's how the pilot (and his life vest) got so cut up. My dad was able to get out through the hole enlarged by the pilot.

Brian,
I and my brothers would like to find out how one gets a copy of that K report 401/1944. We're a little confused about what to request, whether we ask for the whole year and so on, because there were other interrogations of our father later, too. Maybe you could PM on that or direct me to info on this site?

From everything I've read, I'm thinking my dad was part of KG26. But understanding the Luftwaffe structure is a bit difficult. When we would ask him where he was based, he would say Riga. But, he spent all his active duty in France, much of it torpedoing ships in the Mediterranean.

I am very pleased to be here on this site. It is so hard to find info on the Internet when one's German is at the Kindergarten level.

Sue

[Marcel van Heijkop]

Hi Sue,

Nice to have you on board! May I recommend an excellent book on KG26 (which I'm reading and thoroughly enjoying right now)? It's called "Die Spur des Löwen" by Alexander Steenbeck, ISBN 978-3-00-0039734-0. http://www.die-spur-des-loewen.de/englisch.html It has almost a thousand pictures and maps, the story about your dad is on page 250.

Originally Posted by Sue-88

I

I am very pleased to be here on this site. It is so hard to find info on the Internet when one's German is at the Kindergarten level.

Sue

Regarding your last remark above: Don't let the German language put you off, you will be surprised how much you will understand if you are really interested in the subject and using just a simple dictionary (I think you would be even more surprised if you knew how many people on this board are not native German speakers, let alone how many are not even native English speakers..) Even if you would read only the photo captions, this book will help to put the war career of your dad into perspective and give you a good impression of what his colleagues, aircraft and daily ops looked like.

You can find a review here: http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showth...t=31285&page=2

Good luck,

Marcel

[Sue-88]

Brian,
All I can really say for sure is that my dad said his crew was shot down "a month or so" before he (my dad) was shot down. He said when he was with them they were primarily attacking ships in the Mediterranean. He said in his group (not sure of correct term) they were known for hitting targets and getting out of difficult situations. I do not know for sure if they were shot down over the Med. I may have mistakenly connected those dots.

A few months ago, my aunt sent me a photo of my dad and his best friend during the war, Harry, from when they were on leave in E.Prussia. She said Harry was killed in the war, but when I asked if he was the one killed with that crew, she said she didn't think so. My dad did have a good friend killed at Montecassino, according to my mother. So, it gets confusing.

My dad couldn't even give me an exact date for him (my dad) getting shot down. Only said it was July or August 1944.

It's possible he said Mediterranean and just meant off the coast of France. Or, he said some place name I didn't recognize, and when I asked where's that, he said on the Mediterranean. But I am certain the whole crew was lost. I can still remember his face when he said it.

My brother has contacted war records offices in Germany to see what we can find out there.

I will look into a those books, too!

Sue

[DB601E]

Hi Sue and Claude,
as far as i know, there was frequently a 3 men crew for Ju88 torpedo missions.
i'll send you a PM
Regards
Lino

[Sue-88]

There was supposed to be 4: pilot, radio operator, nav./observer, gunner. But in 1944, yes there were frequently 3. My dad was a replacement on this crew. His normal crew had got shot down in the Med. a month before.... all perished. He had been grounded from that flight due to illness. Thanks for the PM, Lino.

I know I'm kind of a novice in understanding all this. I hope to learn a lot here. I don't want to ask questions that have already been answered elsewhere on the site, so I've got to spend some time reading here.

Sue

[martin75]

Hello,

according Admiralty War Diaries for july 1944, it seems 1H+GP was shot down by destroyer HMS Faulkner who picked up to of the crew.

Regards

Claude

[Brian Bines]

Sue,

If you send me an E-Mail address via a PM I can send you a copy of the report,

Regards

Brian Bines

On checking an earlier KG26 'K' report it says that in May1943 the IV/KG26 (Operational training Gruppe) moved from Grosseto to Riga/Spilve.