Apparently on the 332nd cared about protecting Bombers, all other groups were mavericks. I'll explain.

[Mysticpuma]

http://youtu.be/BpA6TC0T_Lw

Gents, I have to be honest and say I was quite looking forward to seeing this film, but sadly, after watching the trailer I felt complete dismay with one line that is to be used in the story and it appears in the trailer too.

At 32-seconds in one of the 15th Airforce Generals' is heard to say "I want Pilots who will look after the Bombers and not just think about themselves!" (or words very similar).

To be honest I my jaw fell and I was quite angry to hear that.

In the time I have been researching the history of the 325th I have heard many stories of Pilots putting their lives at risk to look after their 'Big Friends' and this insinuates that every Pilot was only interested in dogfighting rather than protecting their charges. I am sure 31stFG pilots will be just as upset to hear this huge generalisation that only the 332nd would and could do this.

To be honest I feel like boycotting this film for such a slight against all the pilots (other than the 332nd) who took part in the MTO, as you can imagine I am quite angry about this.

Sadly, as always happens, Hollywood decides History is an inconvenience to a good story, whereas the actual story of the 332nd needs no assistance, it was incredible!

MP

[NickM]

If I didn't know any better I'd say it's an amalgam of the beef 8thAF bomber crews had after Gen Doolittle 'freed' the escorts to see & destroy the Luftwaffe, by the somewhat 'cold blooded' but effective idea to use the bombers as 'bait'; If I recall correctly the 15 AF had a major problem with lack of escort fighters--indeed I was surprised to learn that the 15th had to halt bombing operations a few times due to heavy losses;

[drgondog]

I am with MP. The same line infuriated me also. I have never talked to a fighter pilot that flew in the 8th or 15th that did not feel a compelling urgency to protect the bombers at all costs. To imply that the 332nd was somehow 'above the rest' is a pitiful joke.

Having said this I honor their service and recognize that the survivors may not have written the script.

Ira Eaker was forced out by Eisenhower and replaced by Doolitle at the 8th and went on to command the 12th, 15th RAF Desert and Balkan forces. he was keenly aware that he was criticized for the enormous losses incurred by the 8th in summer/fall 1943 - largely due to lack of escort fighters over Germany. Unlike Doolittle, he didn't get Mustangs until May 1944 although he had P-38s in-theatre (4 groups total).

Eaker also did not have the same imperative that Doolittle had - namely destroy the LW capability to resist the upcoming invasion. Nobody in 8th AF FC leadership was aware that bombers were 'bait' - they were to be protected, but turning them loose gave the 8th AF fighter pilots and edge that LW pilots never had in BoB - namely freedom to be aggressive in pursuit of enemy fighters.

The LW encouraged such experience and attitude by largely obeying Goering's stupid orders to 'avoid US escorts' and it cost them dearly.

On the other hand, the all black 332nd probably did not feel so empowered because of the uniqueness of their constituency - and controlled the pursuit instincts of their pilots. I suspect they were slightly more successful in preventing bomber losses by staying with their charges - and did not have any air aces as a result.

[HGabor]

Maybe because I am a markings maniac, I hate to see everything which is historically fake, or not accurate enough in aviation. I also do not like restored old planes with fantasy markings on airshows. Guys, do not be so cheap!

But what are these 8th AF, 381st BG B-17s doing with the 15th AAF 332nd FG Mustangs? Maybe it is enough for Hollywood to make huge explosions in a film, but if they try to make a historical movie, please, lift up your ***, do the minimal effort and research to be accurate. This would be the minimum. All film-technology is available now to do different tricks and effects, why should they be so cheap in terms of historical accuracy, when thousands of aviation forums and sites can help in no time??? Watching these stupid mistakes I put these films in **** cathegory.

[Brian Bines]

The sticking to the bombers by the 332 FG has already been touched upon in the film Tuskegee Airmen, and the background to it is reported on Wikipedia when it was an raised in the forties. In the latter stages of the war, when the 262s were about, would 15th AF fighters operate in the area of 8th AF B17s ? If so most of the B17s would surely be silver, it does seem a shame if with the time to produce such great graphics aircraft markings were not correct. Still it makes a change from old black and white films showing shots of the Bf109E scrambling to attack B17s in the 1944/45 period or even a Stuka. Probaly the 'Inspired by True Events' which flashes up in the trailer is all that can be expected from Hollywood, ie basic facts padded out with a lot of drama to please all the non-aviation types that will watch it. I enjoyed the film 'The Memphis Belle' which does say the events of many missions were crammed into the story of its Hollywood last mission. Going back to the BoB did not Luftwaffe fighter pilots complain when they were ordered to fly close to the bombers. The view being the bombers crews may have felt better but the fighter pilots felt less able to protect them.

[ClinA-78]

Me 262 is so funny with its yellow marking!

[Dan Johnson]

Long time lurker, first time poster. I wanted to throw out some food for thought in regards to the original post. I've spent a lot of time researching a crew that went down from the 454th BG of the 15th Air Force. When I got started back in the early 90s there were 3 of the original 5 surviving crewmen left. One of them, the bombardier had taken the time to write his story for his family. It was never meant for publication, so there is no political correctness in it, and it was written long before any Red Tails movie, including the first one back in the mid 90s.

In the course of writing his story, the following comment showed up regarding fighter escorts, and is a direct quote:

"We usually met our fighter escort before we left the Adriatic, although they hated the job and often went after fighters the Germans sent up to lure them away. The only Air Corps black combat group in WW2 was a P51 fighter group who flew cover for us in Italy. We could count on them more then the white boys to stay with us under attack. They didn't seem as anxious as the other groups to chase German fighters."

Depending on how you read it, you could even take the last sentence as a slight against the Red Tails, that they were afraid to go after fighters. I believe that DragonDog is accurate in that the 332nd had that much more reason to not chase because of the consequences of their actions were scrutinized that much harder.

In the trailer, the General's remark is something to the effect, 'will you protect my bombers."

I do believe that within the bomber ranks, there was a perception, regardless of how the fighter guys really felt, that the Red Tails were more likely to stick around. That doesn't mean the other FGs cared less. I think it does indicate that Ben Davis wasn't about to give anyone looking for an excuse, a reason to criticize his Group for obvious reasons.

All that being said, I've very wary of this upcoming movie. Beyond the obvious accuracy in markings mistakes etc, it would be very easy to, for lack of a better word, "romanticize" or even make the story way to melodramatic.

My hope is that it will at least get kids to do a little more digging into the real story. The youngest of my four kids is African American and he loves Mustangs. I never had to think about it much, sharing my WW2 aviation passion with my older son. With my little guy, it's going to be a bit harder discussion having to explain to him that back then, he and his brother could not have flown together.

[Dan Johnson]

Clearly the bomber guys knew something if they were requesting the Red Tails.

Ben Davis's P51C so named because of it. I imagine a West Pointer might put that on his bird with a sense of pride. I don't see it as making it up. Not a shot at other fighter drivers, but clearly a response to praise from the bomber guys