US neutral Gray

[tonyeh]

Hi. This is my first post on the "new look" forum.

I have a question.

How "blue" was US neutral gray? What I mean is that I have seen many colour photos of US aircraft in the standard olive drab/neutral gray colours, but the tone of neutral gray appears to be, sometimes, a bright lightish gray to a dark almost RAF azure blue colour.

Last night I saw a documentary on the B-17 and the neutral gray on an 8th AF plane seemed a very dark blue colour. The quality of the film was very good and clear and showed that the aircraft had some operational age to it too, as the OD had that typical faded look to it.

Now, I know that there are parameters involved, such as photo quality, fading and mixing qualities (although as I understand it, US paint mixing was quite a strict process). But the contrast in variations is sometimes VERY stark.

Can anyone help?

Tony

[Pilot]

Can not get much from the photos and they could make illusion. This is in regards to the FS 595b 36173 color and it is grey colo, maybe have a dash of blue. But it look like that modern FS doesn not fully match old ANA standard, something may be changes in color mix. By the way- why don't you simply buy model color instead to mix it?

[Graham Boak]

Other sources say that US inspectors at the aircraft factories were not strict on the colour matches, certainly on Olive Drab as can be seen in many photographs.

Neutral Gray was intended to be neutral in hue, the term does not refer to the USA's early neutral posture in the war. It was quite a dark gray. Most of the later-war photos seem to show the fighters, at least, in a significantly lighter grey. For the 8th AF, this was often the RAF's Medium Sea Grey, although this is far from explaining all cases. MSG has a definite bluish tint.

Some very early aircraft were painted using stocks intended to match RAF Sky Blue, and this may be the very blue colour you are seeing. Early B-24s in the Middle East were known as "bluebellies" because of this.

[tonyeh]

Thanks for the replies lads.

Pilot......I am more interested in understanding if there was actually a real discrepency, rather than a modeling project. So its more an info hunt rather than a modeling question. Although, I am building a P-38 at the moment.

Graham.....Cheers on the info on late war Med sea grey undersides of 8th AF aircraft. I have to admit I didn't know they did that. I wonder if the practice was widespread. Although I would be very careful in judging OD from photo's. OD had a tendency to fade very quickly in even temperate climates.

If you're correct about the USAAF being more relaxed to their mixing standards, then that does throw up a problem and would explain the differences in hue, that I've noticed.

Although I don't think I am mistaking an RAF sky blue for a neutral gray. I've noticed it in too many aircraft (sometimes from the same unit) from too many periods in the war and on various aircraft too from P-47's to B-17's.

Tony

[Graham Boak]

Medium Sea Grey was used by those units in the 8th AF that painted over the D-Day stripes with RAF Dark Green. Several units were expected to move to continental bases and these were required to re-adopt camouflage. The 357th is perhaps the most notable, or at least the best recorded.

However, I do believe that there was a lighter shade of grey available in USAF stocks, so a distinctly lighter grey does not necessarily imply MSG.

I'm well aware of the problems in judging fresh/faded OD, but you only have to look at new C-47s to see different shades of OD on the same aircraft. Wings, fuselages and control surfaces, manufactured and pre-painted in different sites, can be in three different shades. This can even be seen in b+w photos. Similar effects can be seen on B-17 tails. This would not occur if a strong authority thought that the precise paint shade mattered.

[Pilot]

It may be that the neutral Grey was mixture of black and white color. later, from 1943, in service enter one more color Light Grey. This color is more comon on the P-38 lightning.

[tonyeh]

Originally Posted by Graham Boak

However, I do believe that there was a lighter shade of grey available in USAF stocks, so a distinctly lighter grey does not necessarily imply MSG.

True. There was a light gray, ANA 602, in the USAAF paint stock. It is possible that in some circumstances that this lighter gray may have been substituted for the darker neutral gray, especially in the field. I'd be surprised though, if it was as widespread as my perceived discrepancy would suggest

Tony