12./NJG 1 losses on 1 September 1944

[Lucky Luke]

Hi all,

Further to my request about the claims and victories by 83 FS/78 FG on 1 September 1944, I am seeking the crew names of the three aircraft that were shot down. The Bf110s shot down by the American P-47s were discussed in posts on this forum in 2009 and 2013:
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=36144
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showth...ighlight=krebs

However, some of the crew details are incomplete.

Bf 110G-4 WNr.740242 12./NJG 1 G9+LZ
Pilot Oblt. Eberhard Koltermann wounded
Is it correct that Oblt Koltermann didn’t score any victories at all? Is it a common occurrence for a Nachtjagdpilot not to score any victories?
Bordfunker Uffz. Rudolf Stiening wounded but possibly died of his wound 3-4 September 1944. Is this correct or could this be another person with the same name?
Bordschutze Ofw. Johann Poppelmeyer killed
1.Wart OK. Is the name of this fourth occupant known?

Bf 110G-4 WNr. 740647 12./NJG 1 G9+GZ
Pilot Uffz Anton Krebs, Uffz Robert Schmalze, Obgefr Rolf Tröster, Obgefr Ernst Klöber (1. Wart) : all seem to have survived the crash/crash landing.
Was Schmalze the Bordfunker and Tröster the Bordschutze?

Bf 110G-4 WNr. 740246 12./NJG 1 G9+FZ
Pilot Oberfähnrich Wolfgang Schubert, no further details about the other occupants but reportedly all died in the crash. Are the names of the two or three other occupants known?

One additional question: I have the 1999 edition of Michael Balss 'Deutsche nachtjagd : Materialverluste in Ausbildung und Einsatz' and seemingly, this book does not list the three losses above. Are these really not in that book or do I need a new pair of glasses?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Luc

[Stig Jarlevik]

Hi Luc

You have what can be called Vol 2 of Balss' books
These losses are all in Vol 1 which was published in 1997.

740242
Since the 1 Wart was not wounded (or killed) his name is not given in the surviving documents

740647
Schmälzle was the Bord/Messfunker
Tröster was most likely a Bordschütze

740246
Ofhr Wolfgang Schubert
Uffz Ewald Hartroth
Gefr Klaus-Dietrich Bischoff
Gefr Erich Hlozek (1.Wart)

With so many occupants the aircraft must have been on some kind of transition flight.

B Rgds
Stig

[ClinA-78]

With so many occupants the aircraft must have been on some kind of transition flight

Leaving def. Belgium to Germany.

ClinA-78

[James A Pratt III]

As for a NJG pilot not to score any victories this did happen. There are both day and night fighter pilots who just did not have the skill ect to shoot down enemy aircraft.

[Lucky Luke]

Hi James,

I was aware that among the day fighter pilots of both sides there were numerous pilots who didn't score any victories but nevertheless served as wingmen and hence were useful in protecting their leaders.

But I wondered if a purely night fighter pilot, normally a lonely occupation as they didn't operate in pairs or flights, who returned night after night without scoring any victory would last long within a night fighter unit.

Best regards
Luc

[James A Pratt III]

It would be nice if we knew more about Koltermann's service. It could be he was a bomber or transport or seaplane pilot recently transfered to NJG. I will one day get the NCA book from this period and see what they have on him.

[Stig Jarlevik]

Hi Guys

There has popped up another problem with these aircraft.
As per Mankau/Petrick's book the WNr range ended with 740238.
As is obvious these three all fall outside that range.

I have a note from some previous discussion that 740242 was in fact WNr 140292.

This does not explain the other two, so was 740246 instead 140296 and 740647 perhaps 140647?

Cheers
Stig

[Bruce Lander]

Hi,
in handwritten German records a 7 would always have a crossbar on the vertical part of the 7 and a 1 could easily be mistaken for a 7 due to to slightly exaggerated dash at the top of the vertical if there was no crossbar.

Cheers Bruce

[TigerTimon]

Originally Posted by James A Pratt III

It would be nice if we knew more about Koltermann's service. It could be he was a bomber or transport or seaplane pilot recently transfered to NJG. I will one day get the NCA book from this period and see what they have on him.

There is nothing on Koltermann in the Nachtjagd Combat Archive 1944 series.
According to the Volksbund Deutsche Kriegsgräberfürsorge it is Oberfähnrich Wolfgang Schubart.
I have in my notes that according to Matti Salonen the Werknummer of G9+FZ was 440246.

KR
Timon

[ju55dk]

PERS 6/151463
Koltermann, Eberhard
Bestandsbezeichnung
Personalunterlagen von Angehörigen der Reichswehr und Wehrmacht
Geburtsdatum
19.3.1916
Amtsbezeichnung/Dienstgrad
Leutnant
Unterlagenart
Personalakte
Alte Signatur
LP/16906
Benutzungsort
Freiburg

Junker