|
Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies. |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Fritz Obleser's logbook
Please can anybody advise me if a copy of Fritz Oblesers logbook is available to researchers ? thanks.
|
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Fritz Obleser's logbook
Hi
My friend Bernd Barbas knew Obleser well. His logbook was stolen by an American in 1945. I had found 112 confirmed claims for him on the micro films, but no U.S aircraft. Bernd asked him about the alleged nine U.S claims. The answer was that indeed he did shot down nine U.S aircraft, but was himself each time in such a precarious position himself that he was unable to wait around to witness the crash, therefore submitted in each case no claim. Just before his death, at a JG 52 reunion Bernd presented him with a copy of our abschusse list.....his first viewing in sixty years. Kind Regards Johannes P.S Obermaier's biography is quite some way off claim/timewise! |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Fritz Obleser's logbook
thanks Johannes, lets hope that one day it may surface.
|
#4
|
||||
|
||||
Re: Fritz Obleser's logbook
Good evening Gentlemen,
"Holt Hartmann vom Himmel" by Toliver&Constable features a scan of a newspaper article from 21Sep1944. Obleser is attributed with 116 kills on this date. Most other books indicate a final total of 120. Why ? Michael |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Fritz Obleser's logbook
Hi Michael
Can't say, but a fact "from the horses mouth" i.e from Obleser himself, he never officially claimed the nine USAAF aircraft he downed in the Summer of 1944, he apparently made-off too quickly so didn't see any crashes. In my opinion without evidence Obleser's claims judging by the frequency seem to me of an honest claimer. Perhaps somehow the USAAF aircraft were included in his total, but by how it would be hard to tell, unlikely bu Obleser himself. He is also often quoted with a total of 127 ! We always were told Wachowiak had 120-140, yet a total of eighty-nine is 100% accurate. Sometimes totals are given that include unconfirmed, or are actually points using the points system in the West, but in this case there is no answer to Friedrich Wachowiak's total. I would guess it's a mistake duplicated by multiple publications. Kind Regard Johannes |
#6
|
||||
|
||||
Re: Fritz Obleser's logbook
Good morning Johannes,
thanks for your explanation. It would be so convenient if Obleser had shot down 8 instead of 9 US planes without paperwork. That would explain finely the gap between the 112 kills you discovered and the score of 120 propagated in older books. Kind regards from Brandenburg, Michael |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Fritz Obleser's logbook
Hi
With Hans Dammers we are traditionally told 113 victories, whereas am certain the true total is 103. His rudder shows 101 before his move to 2.erg./Jgr.Ost, but the reverse side(the right) shows eleven others destroyed on the ground, eight trains, 39 horse and carts, 34 wagons, 3 guns and one armoured vehicle. Could be in this case the ground claims were somehow added in. It also states he had twenty-three aircraft claimed without witness! Kind Regards Johannes |
#8
|
||||
|
||||
Re: Fritz Obleser's logbook
Good morning Johannes,
thanks for the Dammers assessment. This is a link to the current Dammers thread: http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showth...383#post258383 Cheers, Michael |
#9
|
||||
|
||||
Re: Fritz Obleser's logbook
Is there some kind of rudder photo that shows just when Obleser scored his 100th kill ? Or a squadron log that shows the date ?
Michael |
#10
|
||||
|
||||
Re: Fritz Obleser's logbook
This website suggests that the obscure kills against US aircraft happened in June and August:
http://www.jg52.net/ritterkreuztraeg...drich-obleser/ |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
CO list of Schlacht Gruppen, 39-45 - looking for assistance. | Evgeny Velichko | Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces | 15 | 15th November 2013 12:29 |
Help with artwork profile colors and history of Stab I./KG27 He111P 1G+BB of Obstlt Fritz Graumnitz, Gr Kdr during 9.39 & PC | Larry Hickey | Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces | 9 | 22nd March 2012 04:08 |
Lt. Fritz Zeidler | Jochen Prien | Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces | 0 | 10th January 2012 13:29 |
Nightfighter logbook with 20 confirmed victories for trade | Roger Gaemperle | Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces | 3 | 22nd June 2008 22:42 |
Ltn Fritz Simme JG 5/52 | Laurent Rizzotti | Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces | 0 | 11th May 2006 19:22 |