Photo Breguet

[musec04]

Hello,


Currently on ebay is a nice photo of a Breguet 14 at :


https://www.ebay.it/itm/photo-ww1-so...gAAOSw5Jded5y7


and a line up at:


https://www.ebay.it/itm/photo-ww1-so...sAAOSw33Fed5mO


machines of Br.123?



Regards,


Clint

[Stig Jarlevik]

Hi Clint

Most of the photos this time are pretty indifferent to me.
The Bre 14s that I can see are all from BR 11 (Cocotte Rouge)

Probably the Caudrons seen on other photos are also from this unit when it was called C 11. (Don't believe BR 123 ever used Caudrons)

No idea from where the seller gets his BR 123 and that Nungesser should be involved with it. Seems he has basically labelled all his items more or less the same way.

Cheers
Stig

[musec04]

Hello Stig,


Yes, I shouldn't have just accepted the seller's information.


At least one of the pictures is Nungesser's Nieuport, but seemingly no Br1123 connection at all. I kind of wonder if in fact the reference is to a serial number of a Breguet 14 that can't be sEen in the photo.



Regards,


Clint

[musec04]

Hello,


Currently on ebay a photo of a Breguet 14 at:


https://www.ebay.fr/itm/Aviation-pho...wAAOSwbuJegNah


Does anyone recognise the unit emblem?


Regards,


Clint

[musec04]

Hello,


Currently on ebay there is a nice photo of a Breguet AG 4 with a Deperdussin in the background at:


https://www.ebay.fr/itm/photo-aviati...sAAOSwrHNeypNT


Can anyone read the Breguet's serial number? BR.53 appears logical, at least I don't think its BR.52


Regards,


Clint

[jschreiber]

Originally Posted by musec04

Hello,


Currently on ebay a photo of a Breguet 14 at:


https://www.ebay.fr/itm/Aviation-pho...wAAOSwbuJegNah


Does anyone recognise the unit emblem?


Regards,


Clint

Hello Clint
At first glance, escadrille 228, BR 228 from July 1918.
Regards
Jean Schreiber

[musec04]

Hello Jean,


Many thanks for the assistance.


Regards,


Clint

[jschreiber]

Hello Clint

The 14 B2L is the Liberty engine powered version of the 14 B2 bomber. According to Henri Lacaze book on Breguet planes, about 200 were built by Michelin and Bellanger (car manufacturer), after November 1918. According to his serial number, this one could come from Bellanger, 1919.

Regards

Jean

[Stig Jarlevik]

Jean (Clint)

I confess I am not entirely happy with the two books Lacaze wrote for Lela Presse.
They lack far too much in detail on each type, especially production details.

Looking at what Alan Toelle wrote in his Windsock Data Special back in 2003 on the type 14, one gets a much better picture of its production and serial number ranges.

For instance we know three manufacturers were getting access to the Liberty engine, besiude the two already mentioned, Breguet themselves were also the recipients of a few. Since Breguet only built the reconnaissance model (A2) their Liberty powered aircraft were called Ap2.

Quantity delveries of the L-engine only started in September 1918 and by the end of November 428 had been delivered, Michelin received 200, Breguet 51 and Bellanger 38.
By June 1919 a total of 3575 engines had been received.

In Toelle's book there are pretty detailed production listings of all the eight companies that built the type up to June 1919.

From these listings it is not possible to make out how many Ap2 or B2L that were built, but I think it is a safe bet to say that neither Michelin nor Bellanger used the engine anywhere else, while Breguet might have done so.

All three companies built the type right up to June 1919 but at least back in 2003 it was not known how many by either Breguet or Michelin. Thus it is basically impossible even to make a guess how many of these were Liberty powered.

Lacaze guesstimate of 200 built by the end of WW 1 seems reasonable enough, but the final total must be much, much higher.

Cheers
Stig

[musec04]

Jean/Stig,


Thank you both for the replies. I have to say I should have consulted Lacaze before posting. Unfortunately I chose the wrong reference work


Stig, when you say pretty detailed production listings in the Toelle work, are actual serial blocks given? I'm assuming not since you state that its not known how many B2L were produced by either Breguet or Michelin.



Regards,


Clint