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Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies. |
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Junker 188 crash
Hello, i'm Claudio from Italy, i'm an historical researcher about my little region.
One yaer ago, i have found an old witness who told me about an unknow german plane crashed near Frabosa Soprana (South of Cuneo) in 12 - 13 September 1944. I have found the crash site and a little bit of small scrap iron. On one of these i have found a code and I have found that the airplane would have to be a Junker 188 D2 with this code F6+LP. It belonged Aufklarungsgruppe 6/(F) 122 with base to Bergamo. I know the name of the captain who would have to be Lt. Gottfried Heenes (or Heene). Unfortunately I have not found trace of nothing in the communal archives. From local reports partisan goes the zone under control and the Germans doesn't go on the crash site. The corpses were repatriated after 1945. I don't know the name of the other air ones and where they are buried. I have found these information from http://luftwaffedata.co.uk/html/losses_-_1944.html but now it is extinguished. The data on this Internet page were: 12 Sep 1944 6(F)./122 Ju 188D-2 F6+LP 150235 Crashed no details available, all of Ltn. Gottfried Heene’s crew were killed. This is an italian forum's page about this crash: http://freeforumzone.leonardo.it/discus ... 3955937500 Someone helps me? many thanks in advance Claudio |
#2
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Re: Junker 188 crash
no idea???
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#3
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Re: Junker 188 crash
Be a little more patient!
Ltn. Gottfried Heene, Obgefr. Helmut Scheingraber, Uffz. Walter Jesko, Uffz. Franz Wehmeier. According to my information, all four were injured. I don't know if any of them died later. Fore more about 6.(F)/122 in Italy see: Nick Beale, Ferdinando D’Amico and Gabriele Valentini, Air War Italy 1944–45, the Axis Air Forces from the Liberation of Rome to the Surrender (Airlife Publishing Ltd., Shrewsbury, May 1996) ISBN 1 85310 252 0 |
#4
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Re: Junker 188 crash
Many thanks to all, I'm sorry for my english but I'm self-taught.
I'm very happy to know the others 3 names of the crew. I believe that is this airplane because all the eyewitnesses are sure about the date the night between 12 and 13 september 1944. Moreover the scrap iron and the ammunitions, that we have found, are compatible with the JUNKER 188. The local population that I have interviewed said me that there were 4 died. All the corpses were recovered from the local population and they were buried in Seccata a fraction of Frabosa Soprana. From local reports partisan goes the zone under control and the Germans doesn't go on the crash site. The corpses were repatriated after 1945. This is another page about this crash: http://metaldetector.forumfree.net/?t=28767861&st=15 Username: aereofontane Password: fontaneaereo |
#5
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Re: Junker 188 crash
So, in your opinion is it possible to find the flight plans in order to understand what it was making this airplane.
An other question is it possible to find others information about the crew? |
#6
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Re: Junker 188 crash
I have spoken now with the responsible of Volksbund Deutsche Kriegsgräberfürsorge e. V. Deutscher Soldatenfriedhof/Cimitero Militare Germanico.
In this location there aren't died German with these names and not even in the list of the died German in Europe. |
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Re: Junker 188 crash
Quote:
These reports do usually include a brief description of the purpose of the flight but nothing that you could call a "flight plan." |
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Re: Junker 188 crash
Hi Claudio,
Are you meaning you need more details? Fate was unknown, so how can you be shure this is your aircraft as no indentifiable number or other detail is shown on the website (pictures). According to Andy Mitchells website the crew was Lt. Gottfried Heene, with Obgefr Helmut Scheingraber, Uffz. Walter Jesko and Uffz. Ernst Wehmeier (all killed). However there are two numbers stated: Ju 188 150236 F6+IP in Barry Ketley ´KG 200´ book; but as D-2 150235 F6+LP on Andy Mitchell homepage on FAGr 122. Best regards ed |
#9
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Re: Junker 188 crash
Thanks Nick (for corrcetion, must look for/get your book).
Hello Claudio. Seems if your statement of your witness is correct (re all killed) then possibly either date can be wrong or number not correct (or even code in Nick & co. book be incorrect / or another plane where all were killed). From what we all know on this forum the Unit codes (here F6+LP) were (often) carried by more than one plane but at different dates (yet I have one recorded instance of two aircraft flying with same code, same day - but yet again can be typing error). Seems to me you must also try find also the W.Nr. to be certain of date and crew. These were usually stamped on small plates in several places on fuselage and painted on the tail (and often on parts that were detachiable, for handy referance when putting them back on the plane.) My point here is that real proof of this as the same plane is yet unconfirmed. |
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Re: Junker 188 crash
Quote:
Regarding Ed North's point "However there are two numbers stated: Ju 188 150236 F6+IP in Barry Ketley's ´KG 200´ book ..." 1. It was mostly Geoff Thomas's book which Barry completed after Geoff's early death. 2. There is a second loss report for the same crew, filed on the same sheet as one for a KG 200 aircraft (Geoff Thomas sent me a copy). This plainly gives the WNr. as 150235 but the aircraft's code is not clearly typed. Even so, I still read it as F6+LP because the typewriter's upper case "I" has a serif at top and bottom whereas the letter in the code has no top serif, so I make it an "L." The aircraft's mission is listed as "Feindflug" (operational flight) and place of loss unknown. The crew are all missing but there is a hand written addition dated 29.11.44 (I think) which notes that all four are dead. No place of burial is stated. The loss information we used in "Air War Italy" was from a list compiled by a Berlin researcher, Arno Abendroth, and sent to Ferdinando D'Amico about 20 years ago. Looking at it now, I obviously misread the abbreviation "v" as "verwundet" (wounded) when it should have been "vermisst" (missing). A little late to discover that mistake ... P.S. The existence of two loss reports is not unique. A KG 200 detachment was based at Bergamo with 4. & 6.(F)/122 and sometimes both units filed a report of the same loss. Years ago (before German laws changed) Geoff and I found we had been sent different reports on the same KG 200 aircraft by the Deutsche Dienststelle, giving slightly different information. |
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