Italian aircraft and their top aces

[knusel]

Good evening Gentlemen,

this is my compilation of Italian aircraft and their top aces, enjoy:

• Fiat CR.32: Joaquin Garcia-Morato y Castano (Spanish), 36,5 kills of a total of 40,5
• Fiat CR.42: Mario Visintini, 16,83 kills of a total of 17,83
• Fiat G.50: Oiva Tuominen (Finnish), 16 kills of a total of 35
• Fiat G.50bis: Spiridione Guiducci, 5 kills of a total of 5
• Macchi M.5: Orazio Pierozzi (WW1), 6 kills of a total of 7
• Macchi M.C.200: Vittorio Minguzzi, 9,58 kills of a total of 18,17
• Macchi M.C.202: Teresio Martinoli, at least 16+4 shared of a total of 22+14 shared
• Macchi M.C.205: Luigi Gorrini, 14 kills of a total of 19
• Reggiane Re.2001: Agostino Celentano, 6 kills of a total of 7

Any additions/corrections/opinions are welcome. I'm particularly interested in the definite M.C.202 score of Martinoli.

Cheers,

Michael

[Milos Gazdic]

Hello Michael,
I love your posts dealing with the aircraft types & aces' scores!
I am just wondering wouldn't it be better to call things "Victory" rather than "Kill" or maybe "Destroyed". I know so many instances where aircraft was blowing up even in mid-air but pilot survived...
Just my 2 cents!

BTW are there any of Italian Aces that flew later Fiat models?

Best,
Miloš

[knusel]

Hello Miloš,

"kill" is the usual translation of the German word "Abschuss", literally "shoot-down".
"victory" is the usual translation of the German word "Luftsieg", literally "aerial victory".
Unfortunately, there is no German translation for the English word "claim".
I chose "kill" because it's the shortest word of these ;-)

As far as I know the Fiat G.55 didn't produce aces but I would be glad to be proven wrong.

Have a nice Wednesday,

Michael

[Milos Gazdic]

Hello
I understand clearly why you write kill. (I like to call it that way too but I know I am wrong and I rarely ever write about victories and losses). "Shot" could be another option. It takes equal amount of finger work over keyboard and is good match to Abshuß

On-topic: It's pity that one of the most beautiful a/c in WWII didn't give us any of the aces. It came too late and too small numbers, I suppose to make any real impact.

Regards,
Milos

[knusel]

Hello Miloš,

it annoys me too, when cool airplanes didn't produce an ace (Fokker E.V, Bristol Bulldog, Messerschmitt Me 163).

You may know that the most famous Fiat G.55 is Giovanni Bonet (8 confirmed victories).

Have you ever come across the complete dates and decimals of Teresio Martinoli's shared kills ?

Have a nice Sunday evening,

Michael

[Csaba B. Stenge]

Don't forget the Re.2000. The most successful pilot of the type was Hungarian Imre Pánczél, who scored four confirmed and one unconfirmed kills with the type in 1942 (it is possible, that his unconfirmed kill was later upgraded and was confirmed - later he scored two additional kills with a Bf 109 to reach the acedom for certain)

The details are available in my Hungarian aces book:
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=45222
(sooner or later it will be available in English too).

[PMoz99]

Michael, how many 'kills' did Bonet achieve in the G.55? The only information I have on this is a shared 'kill' on the date of his death.
AFAIK the highest ranking Italian ace who flew the G.55 is Ugo Drago, no claims made. Would you agree?
Peter

[PMoz99]

Michael, I think Luigi Gorrini also flew the G.55 with no claims made.
Peter

[knusel]

Hello Csaba,

I though Pánczél had three kills in the Reggiane and four kills in the Messerschmitt (?)
http://www.cieldegloire.com/008_panzel.php

Hello Peter,

Bonet had only one kill in the Fiat G.55, I think. But I'm not absolutely sure.
https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giovanni_Bonet
Gorrini and Drago may have flown the G.55 but they made no claims in it.
http://surfcity.kund.dalnet.se/italy_gorrini.htm
http://surfcity.kund.dalnet.se/italy_drago.htm

Cheers,

Michael

[Juha]

Both are correct. There is a list made just after the Continuation War by the HQ of the FiAF. In it by adding up to every pilot all confirmed, all those accepted by the HQ without witnesses and all those cases accepted by the HQ without witnesses but which from the summer 1943 onwards were confirmed into regiment's/wing's account not into pilot's personal account. In that list Tuomonen has 43 victories. Later researchers had found some more air combat reports on accepted victories (in air combat reports there are markings made during the confirmation process and the ultimate decision) so Tuominen has got some extra victories but in a fairly new book By Keskinen and Stenman, Ilmavoitot/Aeriel Victories (osa 2/Vol 2 2006) the authors are marked the victories in the traditional Finnish AF way and also in the RAF way by marking all those accepted by the HQ without witnesses and all those cases that were confirmed into regiment's/wing's account as probables. So in the book Tuominen's score is given as 47 + 8 damaged and 35+12+8.