Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces

Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 24th March 2015, 15:41
ChristianK ChristianK is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 645
ChristianK is on a distinguished road
Nice photo find - German planes captured by British Paratroopers

The attached pics plus some more can be found here: www.pegasusarchive.org/varsity/frames.htm

These two Fw 190 F-9s with flame dampers (440382 "10" and ?????? "11") are already known, but can someone tell me anything about the identity of Fw 190 "KT+UO"? I can't find this Stammkennzeichen block in my references.

Also: What are the installations on the wing leading edges of the attached Bf 109? Cameras?

Cheers,
Christian

Last edited by ChristianK; 3rd February 2021 at 12:42.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 24th March 2015, 17:38
ouidjat's Avatar
ouidjat ouidjat is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Shanghai, China
Posts: 3,636
ouidjat is on a distinguished road
Re: Nice photo find - German planes captured by British Paratroopers

Hello Christian,

Wonderful find! Here is the first photo - expired eBay auction, October 2011 - we already got!

Last edited by ouidjat; 11th April 2015 at 18:17.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 24th March 2015, 18:27
ouidjat's Avatar
ouidjat ouidjat is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Shanghai, China
Posts: 3,636
ouidjat is on a distinguished road
Re: Nice photo find - German planes captured by British Paratroopers

Same source:
Then... I believe - we already talked about it times ago - it's one of the first MG108 trials for future Bf109K-6.
Look at K-6 mock-up photo, look at the leading edge and look at the same leading edge curves (yellow arrows) on actual picture ..

StKz ??+EM or ??+LM.

Regards, Franck.

Last edited by ouidjat; 11th April 2015 at 18:17.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 24th March 2015, 20:44
veltro veltro is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 444
veltro is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Nice photo find - German planes captured by British Paratroopers

Sorry Franck, but I don't think those are MK 108 structures, or for any other weapon.

IMHO, the "mouth" of the structure is far too smooth and devoid of any visible support to receive a bolted-on part to let us think that a barrel and its cap could be placed there.

Also, the shape of the structure extends also above the wing, whereas the mock-up of the MK 108 nacelle is protuding only below the wing.

Last but not least, the whole frontal part of the mock-up seems to me a lot rounder.

This for why it doesn't seems a weapon to me; to determine what it could be it's all another matter... my wild guess is that those could be aerodinamic enclosures for photo or cine cameras.

Always IMHO, of course.
__________________
All the best,

Ferdinando D'Amico
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 24th March 2015, 22:08
ouidjat's Avatar
ouidjat ouidjat is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Shanghai, China
Posts: 3,636
ouidjat is on a distinguished road
Re: Nice photo find - German planes captured by British Paratroopers

Dear Ferdinando,

These are your thoughts. Technical details between this and that aren't that important when we don't know what's the matter.

Can be more rounded, can be less rounded as well. What I said is the gun tubes have been removed.

Place seems to be Luneburg which is very close to weapon test plane at E-Stelle Travemünde.
Last known cameras to be put on Bf109G and K-4 were BSK 16 (or something like that) And fairings were quite different than what we are discovering down there.

Best and friendly regards, Franck.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 26th March 2015, 00:43
bearoutwest bearoutwest is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 401
bearoutwest is on a distinguished road
Re: Nice photo find - German planes captured by British Paratroopers

Quote:
Originally Posted by veltro View Post
.......
Also, the shape of the structure extends also above the wing, whereas the mock-up of the MK 108 nacelle is protuding only below the wing.
......
Ferdinando,
I don't know enough about Bf109K-6's to agree or disagree with you on your overall conclusion....except that the wing-only photo is probably placed on the test-rig upside down - so the wheel well is on the top. So the cannon or camera or whatever mounting, does protrude below the wing on an installed aircraft.

Regards,
...geoff
__________________
- converting fuel into noise.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 26th March 2015, 18:50
veltro veltro is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 444
veltro is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Nice photo find - German planes captured by British Paratroopers

Quote:
Originally Posted by bearoutwest View Post
Ferdinando,
I don't know enough about Bf109K-6's to agree or disagree with you on your overall conclusion....except that the wing-only photo is probably placed on the test-rig upside down - so the wheel well is on the top. So the cannon or camera or whatever mounting, does protrude below the wing on an installed aircraft.

Regards,
...geoff
Geoff, just to be precise, I know that photo of the 30mm cannon "blended gondola" mock-up since it appeared fifteen years ago in the fantastic Tomas Poruba's work on the Bf 109K-4 C&M, and yes, I noticed it was upside down... my comment was relative to the fact that "that" mock-up appears to protude only below the wing, whereas the structure on the modified G-6 is clearly extending also above the wing leading edge.

That such structure could be a variation to the one shown by Poruba's photo is certainly possible, but, beyond apparent logic, I still feel that it could house something else. Silly me, of course...
__________________
All the best,

Ferdinando D'Amico
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 24th March 2015, 18:25
ChrisS ChrisS is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oxford England
Posts: 727
ChrisS is on a distinguished road
Re: Nice photo find - German planes captured by British Paratroopers

Thank you Christian, there is also a Ju 88 and Me 262 on the same website all found by British Paratroops
.

Regards
Chris
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 24th March 2015, 21:58
Martin388 Martin388 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Vienna, Austria
Posts: 65
Martin388 is on a distinguished road
Re: Nice photo find - German planes captured by British Paratroopers

As far as I can see this is definitely not a Bf109K-6 but very likely a G-6. There seem to be a Stammkenzeichen applied xx+EM or LM visible. This would be likely for a weapon test bed aircraft. It could be a trail for an integration of a Bordrakete BR into the wing structure in order to reduce the drag from external racks for e.g. BR21.

Is there an indication for the location where this photo has been taken?

Martin
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 24th March 2015, 23:07
ouidjat's Avatar
ouidjat ouidjat is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Shanghai, China
Posts: 3,636
ouidjat is on a distinguished road
Re: Nice photo find - German planes captured by British Paratroopers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin388 View Post
As far as I can see this is definitely not a Bf109K-6 but very likely a G-6. There seem to be a Stammkenzeichen applied xx+EM or LM visible. This would be likely for a weapon test bed aircraft. It could be a trail for an integration of a Bordrakete BR into the wing structure in order to reduce the drag from external racks for e.g. BR21.

Is there an indication for the location where this photo has been taken?

Martin
No one said it was a K-6.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
1939-45 airpower and professional historians Grozibou Allied and Soviet Air Forces 32 22nd August 2008 00:10
German Claims in Poland 1939 Marius Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 56 12th September 2005 18:39
Israeli Ezer Weizman Nonny Allied and Soviet Air Forces 6 28th April 2005 04:34
Fighter pilots' guts Hawk-Eye Allied and Soviet Air Forces 44 8th April 2005 15:25
Stuka in Aeroplane II/05. Nice Story and Plenty Errors! Mirek Wawrzynski Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 11 27th January 2005 20:15


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 00:53.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net