Bombing civilian targets by the Luftwaffe?

[Marius]

Hi all,
I start this thread to hear your opinion about who at first started the war against purely civilian targets.

I don`t mean "collateral" victims when bombing military targets, but intended bombing attacks with a view to demoralize or kill civilian people.

As we know Churchill decided in May 1940 to bomb German targets far beyond the frontline in France and additionally by night. It is clear that such attacks would mainly hit the civilians. But nevertheless, later Churchill and "Bomber" Harris officially declared war against German civilians with the hope to bring the war to a faster end.

Was there ever has been a target bombed by the Luftwaffe where we can say it was purely civilian? I don`t mean the attacks started in 1944 by V1 and V2, but the period between 1940-1942.

Many regards,
Marius

[Laurent Rizzotti]

You can find claims on the Net that in September 1939 the Luftwaffe bombed a Polish city (don't remember the name) as an experiment, killing hundred of civilians. I don't know enough to say if it is true or false.

For sure, the bombing of Varwaw in September 1939, targetting the Jewish ghetto more than the rest of the city, was clearly not searching to hit military targets.

[George Hopp]

I suggest that this thread go to "WW2 in General" where it won't interfere with serious discussions, because it is already degenerating into a blame game.

[Marius]

Laurent,
you surely mean Wielun, bombed in the morning of 1.9.1939. But this was not an experiment. Two Stuka units - I./StG 76 and I./StG 77 - tried to hit a Polish military unit (according to German documents a "cavalry brigade") reported as based in the city or marching through it. And in the end in fact there died many civilians living there. But surely not hundreds. Polish sources mention about 1200 killed people, but I doubt it. This exaggerated figure was never corrected.

What is the source for bombing Jewish ghetto in Warsaw more than the rest of the city?


George,
this thread is also concerning the Luftwaffe action. If somebody in Germany gave the order for bombing civilian targets I would like to know who did, when and what German Luftwaffe units made it real. Perhaps somebody here could mention a German document to bring the evidence for this.

Marius

[Laurent Rizzotti]

What for the bombing on Rotterdam on May 1940 ? Or the bombing on the City on 29 Dec 1940 ?

The first indiscrimate bombing by RAF was on Lübeck, in early 1942. Every raid before was given a military or industrial target.

[Marius]

Laurent,
in Rotterdam there was fighting between German and Netherland military units. I would say it was a "ground battle area", therefore a military target. As you surely know Netherland tropps surrendered in the meantime, but it was too late to break off the bombing mission. Nevertheless about the half of KG 54 He 111`s did not bomb the city.

29.12.1940? Do you mean Coventry? Wasn`t there any military target?

Marius

[Grzesio]

Originally Posted by Marius

Laurent,
you surely mean Wielun, bombed in the morning of 1.9.1939. But this was not an experiment. Two Stuka units - I./StG 76 and I./StG 77 - tried to hit a Polish military unit (according to German documents a "cavalry brigade") reported as based in the city or marching through it. And in the end in fact there died many civilians living there. But surely not hundreds. Polish sources mention about 1200 killed people, but I doubt it. This exaggerated figure was never corrected.

Geeez, Marius, I thought the problem of a 'cavalry brigade' in Wielun had been painfully explained (maybe directly to you?) on one of Polish forums some time ago, wasn't it?

OK, and now, please, can you explain your doubts in the official number of victims in Wielun? Why do you think it's exaggerated? You have strong PROOFS for sure, because if you only think/believe/dream so, it only proves your pityful research methods.

Regards

Grzesio

[Marius]

Hello Grzesio,
if the problem of the "cavalry brigade" in Wielun has been painfully explained so please give us the results of the discussion.

Concerning the 1200 killed people you should compare other bombing attacks as for example Rotterdam in May 1940 (as mentioned above) or the first 1000 bomber raid against Cologne or other. Compare how many tons of bombs fell on the cities and how many people were killed. In Wielun fell "only" 30 tons.

The question is who counted the victims of Wielun and when appear the figure " 1200 " at first. Can you give an answer?

In Rotterdam should has been killed 30 000 people. Long after the war`s end the figure was corrected to 600 - 900 victims.

Marius