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Allied and Soviet Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the Air Forces of the Western Allies and the Soviet Union. |
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#1
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Which P-47 Group(s) in combat on 16 May 1943?
I have Luftwaffe records stating that on May 16, 1943, there was a battle with Thunderbolts. LW claimed five of them in the area of Scheldemündung, Vlissingen and Zeebrugge. One of the scorers was Maj. Priller himself. Also, Kommodore II./JG 1 was KIA in this action. Which P-47 Group(s) took part in it?
thanks in advance |
#2
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According to En Nooit was het Stil... the P-47 was part of the 78th FG, the pilot was saved by the Rheinflotille; in turn the 78th claimed one Fw 190 belonging to II./JG 1 flown by Hptm. Wickop (Prien/Rodeike).
The claims were 3 for 78th. FG, against one actual kill. OTOH, according to Prien/Rodeike JG 1 only claimed 2 Thunderbolts, not 5? You could check the FAQ claim links.
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Ruy Horta 12 O'Clock High! And now I see with eye serene The very pulse of the machine; A being breathing thoughtful breath, A traveller between life and death; |
#3
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Thank you, Ruy. Here's what I've got:
Maj. Josef Priller (88 ) Stab/JG 26 P-47 Scheldemündung: 7.000-2.000 m Ofw. Johann Edmann 8./JG 26 P-47 6-8 km. W. Vlissingen: tiefflug Fw. Walter Grünlinger Stab/JG 26 P-47 10 km. E. Zeebrugge: 6.000 m. Maj. Hans Philipp(205) Stab/JG 1 P-47 25 km. N. Zeebrugge Oblt. Harry Koch (16) 6./JG 1 P-47 10 km. N. Zeebrugge Looks like 78FG had a really bad day, running into some of the best LW fighter pilots around Btw, what does "tiefflug" mean? |
#4
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Tiefflug means low level flight - on the deck so to speak.
I did not check Caldwell before, but he lists only a single claim by Priller. He also leaves no doubt that the single 78th FG loss was shot down by Priller, but Caldwell does allow for the fact that Philipp or a fellow JG 1 pilot might have been responsible for wounding another 78th FG pilot during this engagement. Since I do not have the actual combat reports, I can only guess, but as things are I think it would be difficult to unequivocally attribute the claim to either pilot or unit. If Caldwell is right, two more JG 26 pilots were lost, one of them killed in a forced landing. However the 4th and 56th were also involved that day (Freeman) and without knowing their exact mission profile we cannot disprove that they weren't involved in any of the combats. US claims for the day 2-2-3 (destroyed-probably destroyed-damaged). If the 78th FG was the sole unit engaged their claiming was very accurate.
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Ruy Horta 12 O'Clock High! And now I see with eye serene The very pulse of the machine; A being breathing thoughtful breath, A traveller between life and death; |
#5
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Thank you, that helps a lot
My only doubt is, what was Priller doing at the Schelde Estuary? Wasn't it JG 1 "hunting ground"? |
#6
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that day the 56 and 78 FG carried out fightersweeps over the Scheldt area with 36 and 42 P 47's resp. and later they were joined by the P 47's of 4 FG. The Luftwaffe responded with alarming II./JG 26 and II./JG 1 and at one moment - at 18.12 hours - the Flak commander was informed that 65 German fighters were approaching his Gefechtsbereich (and subsequently had to stop firing at the low flying formations).
Losses were: 1 P 47 of 78 FG downed neear the village of IJzendijke 1 P 47 of 78 FG damaged but able to return 1 Bf 109G-4 of 4./JG 54 crashed near Philippine 1 Fw 190 of 6./JG 26 near Zaffelare 1 Fw 190 of II./JG 1 (Hptm. Dietrich Wickop) crashed in Scheldt river |
#7
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Thank a lot, Wim. Before I finish my work, I'm sure I will have a couple of questions to you, if you dont mind
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#8
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don't hesitate to contact me directly for more information.
Wim |
#9
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Single P-47 lost
According to the recently published "Losses of the 8th and 9th Airforces. It was F/O charles E. Brown of the 82nd FS/78th FG. He was shot down by enemy fighters and picked up by German destroyer off Walcheren Island after combat in the Maldegem/Eeko area of Belgium.
Looks like everyone overclaimed that day. |
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