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Allied and Soviet Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the Air Forces of the Western Allies and the Soviet Union. |
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#1
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Soviet 12.7mm vs Ma Deuce
Was the Soviet 12.7mm ever carried on aircraft? How did it compare to the US 50 calibre?
http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg03-e.htm Last edited by Nonny; 28th April 2005 at 19:00. |
#2
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Re: Soviet 12.7mm vs Ma Deuce
The DsHK wasn't - it was produced only as a ground gun, so was comparable with the .50 M2HB (i.e., heavy and slow-firing). For aircraft use the Soviets had the UB (or Berezin for short) which fired the same 12.7x108 ammo. The ammo was slightly more powerful than the .50's 12.7x99 and it generally fired better bullets. The UB was lighter and faster-firing than the aircraft M2, so it was a better all-round package. What I don't know was how reliability compared.
You will find a detailed analysis of the effectiveness of WW2 fighter guns and gun fits on different aircraft on my website (as well as lots of other goodies!). Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion forum |
#3
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Re: Soviet 12.7mm vs Ma Deuce
Hello
IIRC Finns had more reliability problems with war booty Berezins than with US .50s. When Finns tried to use UBs as the central gun of the MS 406 in place of the 20mm "Motor cannon" Hispano UBs suffered for example gun frame/body (not sure which is the right term) breakages. Juha |
#4
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Re: Soviet 12.7mm vs Ma Deuce
Quote:
TW |
#5
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Re: Soviet 12.7mm vs Ma Deuce
Hello Tony
Yes, it was installed in some MS 406s. I don't know how well it worked, my source, Jukka Raunio's Lentäjän näkökulma II (1993), mentioned only the problems with UBs and mentioned that 12,7 mm Colt was installed in some Ms 406s without commenting how well it worked. (Finns called .50 Brownings as 12,7mm Colts). Also in combat reports from year 1944 there are sometimes mentioned that Berezin malfunctioned during combat, more often pilots just noted that the middle gun malfunctioned, the problem with the central gun of MS were rather common which was critical because the central gun was the only effective weapon in MS late in war, the 2 or 4 7,5mm wing mgs were by then rather ineffective against well protected Soviet a/c. Nothing definite, I'm afraid. MS 406 isn't my speciality. Juha Ps. Fiins also installed Berezins to their Curtiss Hawk 75As (the export versions of P-36) as fuselage gun/guns in place of the 2 light mgs but from 43 onwards they substituted 12,7mm Colts and LKK 42s (Finnish copy of .50 Browning) for Berezins, because latter's unreliability under G-forces, partly because of weak belts. Last edited by Juha; 29th April 2005 at 20:49. Reason: Adding new info |
#6
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Re: Soviet 12.7mm vs Ma Deuce
Thanks, Juha.
That's interesting as the synchronised rate of fire of the UB was supposed to be twice as fast as the M2. The UB's RoF is given as 1,050 rpm free, 800 rpm synchronised, while the M2 managed 800 rpm free and 400-500 synchronised, according to my information. If only I could gather the information about belts it would make for an interesting study. Nobody pays much attention to them but they were critical to successful performance, and it was important to get the characteristics right; they needed steel of a certain springyness - to use a technical term - which wasn't always easy to acquire, especially under wartime conditions. The 30mm MK 108 in the Me 262 also suffered from belts being pulled apart under G-forces, as did the 20mm MK12 cannon in the Crusader F8U jet fighter. Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion forum |
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