JG 54 Winter 1943 cammouflage

[JanZ]

Hi friends,
I am looking for any expert info, or at least opinion about following problem:

- In winter 1942-43 the Fw 190s of JG 54 were mostly painted by white winter color. There is possible to see that the original darker cammo is visible under this white. On this way I have these questions:

1) was the undersurface bottom side of the A/C also painted white, or there remains the original light blue color... (the old 64, or 65 or even 76???). In publications is possible to see many profiles where the A/C is completely white... but I am worry if this is correct...

2) what was basically the original cammo for upper side of 190s of the JG 54 from Autumn 1942? Grey based cammo or Green / Brown based?

Thanks for any opinion....
Best regards, Jan

[Jim P.]

The answer to question 2 I think is fairly easy - JG 54, as far as I know, did not receive any 190s until very late in 1942 and the one recorded loss I have occurred on 28-Dec-42 at Heiligenbeil in Germany, presumably during re-equipping/training/familiarization.

[JanZ]

Jim, thanks, this helps of course... so please do you know what factory cammo these fresh new Fw 190s had ?
Thanks, Jan

[markjsheppard]

Jan

The 190's left the factory in ther standard 74/75/76 camouflage colours of the period.

Jim P was correct with Heilenbeil - this was when the re-equipping of JG54, I Gruppe began. Others would follow in 1943.

JG54 used a combination of colours in the field. Two greens were a common finish as was green/brownviolet/tan was another wither in clear demarkation lines or more radom mixes of colour. It is very interest to see and the three colour combination was clear on Fw190A-5 1227, White A of 4./JG54 which was recovered in 1991. This aircraft was picked up in April/May Germany painted 74/75/76 and was lost on 19th July 1943 outside Leningrad (St Petersburg) with green/brownviolet/tan upper colours. The underside 76 did not change.

Hope this is of help.

regards

MS

[JanZ]

Mark,

many thanks for your reply. I did believe this, thank to you and Jim for confirmation.

One more ask, please - do you can describe the "tan" color... any equivalent in RLM? Do you mean the sand patches used in JG 54 during summer 1943?

Is there any website link or article source about the recovered W.Nr 1227?
It looks very interesting for me!!!!!

Thanks, Jan

[Christian Schulz]

It would be insanely difficult to determine with 100% certainty which colours were used on JG 54's Fw 190s, but it is a viable assumption that the older "green colours" RLM 70 and 71 were used. The "tan tone" could be RLM 79, but I have also seen a profile of a Bf 109 G-2 from summer 1942 which - according to Claes Sundin - used captured stocks of soviet AMT-4 (a light green which resembles the spring/summer environment of the birch woods of north-west Russia and the Baltics) so it might be possible that other captured soviet colours were used.

But there will probably never be complete agreement on the tones as the photographs of the time weren't particularly favoring colour research.

[Cpt_Farrel]

I aggree that one shouldn't get stuck in RLM numbers only, but they are still a possibility. A total repaint wouldn't be done in the field anyway. It would be done at depots and besides, they got the fuel they needed so why not the paint?

AMT-4 looks about right compared to certain colorphotos but there are others that looks very much like RLM 61/81 and RLM62/82...

/Anders

[Modeldad]

But fuel is as essential as food. Paint is not. 60Kg can of paint or the same amount of aviation fuel in a Ju 52? Hmmmmmm.

As for the reference to use of 81/82/83, don't these colors post-date the painted aircraft in question?

[Graham Boak]

Merrick identifies the colours as the prewar 61/62/63, IIRC. It was not uncommon for the Luftwaffe to experiment with different colours in a geschwader at the front-line. Bear in mind that the unit was not actually right at the cutting edge but safely back within the supplied perimeter, and a few gallons of paint would not take up that much space on a train or lorry. Such a movement may well not have been a high priority, but over the course of a winter such a movement is not that unbelieveable.

[Don Pearson]

The importance of fuel over paint reminds me of the stories during the Stalingrad airlift of crates of condoms being shipped in instead of food. Crazier things...

Somewhere I recall reading the theory (maybe from a Superscale decal sheet) that there were Fw 190s shipped during the winter with factory applied white camo. Does this theory still hold any water?

Don