Luftwaffe combat claims

[John P Cooper]

Being new to this forum and new to this topic I would like to gain a better understanding of the combat claims process. I am not sure if this is covered in any book but I would like to know more about the step by step process from the forms used to the verification process.

Any information would be greatly appreciated ~ thanks for your time.

Cheers

John

[Dick Powers]

Although I don’t have any source which detail the process, I believe the process was:



After combat the pilot wrote a report, including an “Abschussmeldung” (Shoot-down report). This was a preprinted form which had spaces for date, time location, aircraft shot down, fate of crew, time and height of attack, victim identity, witnesses, and other relevant information. This form, along with a short report, witnesses statement and commanding officer’s endorsement was submitted up the chain to the RLM. Eventually the claim was confirmed or denied. The entire confirmation process could take months.



I have an original victory claim from NJG1 for Johannes Hager for the night of February14, 1943. It includes

The “Abschussmeldung” (including red pen notations from the RLM and hand marking that the victory was confirmed as the 181st (?) staffel victory.

Statement by Hager, pilot

Statement by Uffz. Lada, his observer

Statement by independent witness

Endorsement by Franz Buschmann, Staffelkapitan

Endorsement by Walter Ehle, Gruppenkommandeur



Here’s the rub: after fall of 1944 (October –November), the whole process fell apart. There were no more “confirmed” victories.



I’d be interested in corrections or additions to this process as I understand it.

[Jan Bobek]

Yes,

I would add that finally the unit and pilot received final statement about result of victory evaluation.

At the beginning of the war (Sept. 39) this process took cca 3 months. Later in the war 6 months were usual, but also 1 year period was no exception.

Pilot´s logbook and its notes about victories is good indication that something has happened. But it is the CONFIRMATION document from RLM that proofs status of the claim.

cheers

Jan

[Andrew Arthy]

Originally Posted by John P Cooper

Being new to this forum and new to this topic I would like to gain a better understanding of the combat claims process. I am not sure if this is covered in any book but I would like to know more about the step by step process from the forms used to the verification process.

Any information would be greatly appreciated ~ thanks for your time.

Cheers

John

Hi,

The Luftwaffe victory claims system is described in the book by Morten Jessen and myself, Focke-Wulf FW 190 in North Africa, on pages 67-69. We found a source in the Bundesarchiv that gave the exact process for claiming an aerial victory. We have translated and included part of this document in the book as well.

In our next book we plan to outline the Luftwaffe claims process for attacks on enemy shipping, again with references to original German documents.

Cheers,
Andrew Arthy

"You'll never silence the voice of the voiceless" - Rage Against The Machine

[John P Cooper]

Thanks Dick, Jan, Andrew for your replies!

@ Dick - would it be possible to see a scan of the document? BTW I grew up in S.F. I live just over the county line now in D.C. "a small world!

@ Andrew - humm now another book to add to the wish list can you provide me additional details on the new book you posted about?

Thanks again all - feel free to PM me off board if that is best for you.

John

[Andrew Arthy]

Originally Posted by John P Cooper

Thanks Dick, Jan, Andrew for your replies!

@ Dick - would it be possible to see a scan of the document? BTW I grew up in S.F. I live just over the county line now in D.C. "a small world!

@ Andrew - humm now another book to add to the wish list can you provide me additional details on the new book you posted about?

Thanks again all - feel free to PM me off board if that is best for you.

John

Hi John,

Regarding the book by Morten Jessen and myself, please check the following link to Amazon.co.uk for details: http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...409752-8301412

The book was released last year by Classic Publications/Ian Allan in the United Kingdom. It should now be available in the US.

Cheers,
Andrew A.

"You'll never silence the voice of the voiceless" - Rage Against The Machine