Hungarian "black 7" from Neubiberg

[Grzegorz Cisek]

Hi all,

In a picture on page 48 (bottom) of JaPo Messerschmitt Bf 109G-10/U4 we can see a Hungarian Bf 109 after landing on Neubiberg airfield. This aircraft very probably belonged to 101 “Puma” group. At this time Puma group used aircraft marked with numbers in three colors : white, black and yellow. These colors indicated 101/I. , 101/II. And 101/III. squadrons. This specific Bf 109 very probably had the black number 7. Part of the number is seen in the photo. I know this aircraft only from this one picture. In Gyorgy Punka’s “A Messzer” book Bf 109G-10/U4 “black 7” is not mentioned among all 101/II. aircraft in both “Puma” aircraft lists from 10.04.1945 and 02.05.1945 (dd.mm.yy). By the way the famous “yellow 12” (101/III.) from Neubiberg is not mentioned neither.
Is here anyone who has any additional information concerning Hungarian “black 7” seen in that picture ?
Grzegorz

[S Sheflin]

Grzegorz,

For several years I have been collecting photographs and data on the approximately thirty-nine Bf 109s that landed at Neubiberg on 8 May 1945. I have accounted for many of their Werknummern, and have created maps of the aircraft as they were found on the field.

There were two Bf 109 G-10s marked “7+ Black” at Neubiberg. First was “7+ -,” one of two Erla-built G-10s found there. It featured a typical (for II./JG 52 anyway) small black plane number and II. Gruppe bar outlined in white. The aircraft to which you refer was a WNF-built G-10 with the markings of the Hungarian “Puma” unit, 2./Ung. JS 101. I believe that this 7+ Black (WNr. unknown) was later brought to the US as FE/T2-123.

Finally, do any of our European colleagues know if any of the Hungarian 109s were flown to Neubiberg by German pilots? I have read references that suggest German pilots were grabbing anything that could fly to escape the Soviets.

Steve Sheflin

[harrison987]

Hi Steve!

Yes, Black 7 was flown by a German Pilot. JG52 shared the same airfield as the Hungarians...

Also, I would LOVE to have a copy of your findings, werk numbers, map, etc. Can you provide?

Please PM me, and we can discuss...

Thanks!

mike

[Grzegorz Cisek]

Hi Mike, Hi Steve,

I am very happy that here is sombody who is interested in Neubiberg's Bf 109 !

During last years this subject has been still in my mind. As I know a lot of aircraft lovers are all the time looking for Wilhelm Batz Bf 109 which is so misterious like Holly Graal.


Regarding Hungarian Bf 109 in Neubiberg. Hungarian 101 fighter group in April and May 1945 was based in Raffelding airfield together with German II./JG 52. I am not at home now and do not have any references by hand but I found almost all tactical numbers for Hungarian Bf 109 from 101/II. Squadron (Staffel) on 10.04.1945. I analised the loss lists in April i May 1945 and status of 101/II. on 02.05.1945 and in any of these lists I did not meet 7+ black mentioned. It is very amazing to me.
Another Hungarian Bf 109G-10/U4, 12+ yellow did not wear typical for 4 Luftflotte aircraft markings like yellow band around engine cover and yellow rudder. Why ?


Steve, I am also interested with your materials regarding Neubiberg.


Grzegorz

[robert]

Hi,

I think there is a photo of Batz`s plane from Neubiberg as well as of others staff planes: <2 (Kellmayer), <1 (v.de Kamp), <3 (NN).
From other II/JG52`s subunits I saw photos of:
- white 1,11, 9,12,2,another 2, 17,3, 16,4,21
- black 1, 2, 11, 14, 21, 7, 6,4
- yellow 8,5,17,19,20,11,2
- blue 21,22,19
Perhaps one day will see the profiles of all these planes?

Regards

Robert

[Grzegorz Cisek]

Hi Robert,

I think there is not. According to Mr. Bernd Barbas Batz crashed his << plane in Wien in April 1 1945 together with several others II./JG 52 pilots and from that time is no evidence that he had any new <<. Perhaps he had a new one ...

Grzegorz