Location of Ju 88 remains vicinity of St Lo, Normandy

[Woodpecker]

I was flying from Eindhoven (in a Ju 88, KG54), to Normandy. On the night of July 30/31st 1944 in the vicinity of St. Lo I was shot down by flak.

The remains of the aircraft engines were discovered in 1983-84, I believe, by a French local historian. What I would like to know is where they were found. Also, whether any remains were found with it. The rest of my crew went down with the plane I beleive.

Can anyone help?

[leonventer]

Originally Posted by Woodpecker

I was flying from Eindhoven (in a Ju 88, KG54), to Normandy. On the night of July 30/31st 1944 in the vicinity of St. Lo I was shot down by flak. ... The rest of my crew went down with the plane I beleive.

According to Radtke's "Kampfgeschwader 54", two aircraft from 8./KG 54 were lost on the night of July 30/31, 1944 in the area just south of Saint Lo:

• Ju 88A-4, B3+IS (p.217) or B3+JS (p.370), all crew missing (Uffze Pohlschmidt, Schubert, Wischers & Ogefr Möller), Le Mesnil (probably Le Mesnil-Herman)
• Ju 88A-4, B3+ES, 1 POW (Ogefr Ernst Specht) + 3 missing (Uffze Baumgart, Kaupa & Ogefr Sitek), Gavray

I did a quick google for info about a recovered Ju 88 in that area around 1982-83, but didn't find anything. No doubt others will know more.

Hope that helps,
Leon Venter

[David E. Brown]

Hello Woodpecker,

Echoing Leon’s comments, in Siegfried Radtke’s 1990 book “Kampgeschwader 54: von der Ju 52 zur Me 262 – Eine Chronik nach Kriegstagebüchern, Documenten und Berichten 1935-1945”, he notes three Ju 88 losses for that period that might by your aircraft. Information comes from the text (p.217), Appendix 8 - Personalverluste (p.336) and Appendix 9 – Flugzeugverluste (p.370):

30 July 1944 – Ju 88 A-4, WNr.3665, B3+CH, 1./KG 54, 100%, Le Mesnil, France
FF: Lt. Hans Sickfeld – missing
BO: Uffz. Oskar Winter – missing
BF: Uffz. Hermann Mittelstaedt – missing
BS: Fw. Erich Leimbach – missing

31 July 1944 – Ju 88 A-4, WNr.????, B3+JS, 8./KG 54, 100%, Le Mesnil, France
FF: Uffz. Karl Pohlschmidt – missing
BO: Uffz. Wolfgang Schubert – missing
BF: Uffz. Heinz Wischers – missing
BS: Ogefr. Wilhelm Möller – missing

31 July 1944 – Ju 88 A-4, WNr.????, B3+ES, 8./KG 54, 100%, near Gavré, France
FF: Uffz. Horst Baumgart – missing
BO: Ogefr. Bruno Sitek – missing
BF: Ogefr. Ernst Specht – missing
BS: Uffz. Ernst Kaupa – missing

In the text, Radtke offers more information and states that the two losses on the 31st – presumably very early on that date – were at Granville, Gavray [Gavré] (B3+JS) and Le Mesnil-Herman (B3+ES) respectively. He also states that the BF (Bordfunker ) of Baumgart’s aircraft B3+ES, Ogefr. Ernst Specht, was later determined to be a POW. Presumably, this is you?

Regarding the discovery and excavation of the aircraft and crew remains, I don’t have any information, but perhaps John Manrho in the Netherlands would probably be able to help you. I’ll send you his contact information separately. If you go to the following website - http://www.volksbund.de/graebersuche/content_suche.asp - you may be able to locate the resting place of your fellow crew members.

All the best with your search,

David

[RT]

Laut ADI/k JS/IS is the one quoted above ES,from this plane

FF: Uffz. Horst Baumgart – missing MISSING
BO: Ogefr. Bruno Sitek – missing MAYBE RETURNED TO ONE LINES
BF: Ogefr. Ernst Specht – missing Prisoner
BS: Uffz. Ernst Kaupa – missing MISSING

Maybe the question comes from Mr Sitek or Mr Specht ???

Remi

[Huib Ottens]

Hi Gruppe,

'Specht' is the german word for Woodpecker..........

[RT]

So , even 2 weeks late happy birthday Mr. Specht

Remi

[philip turland]

Originally Posted by Woodpecker

I was flying from Eindhoven (in a Ju 88, KG54), to Normandy. On the night of July 30/31st 1944 in the vicinity of St. Lo I was shot down by flak.

The remains of the aircraft engines were discovered in 1983-84, I believe, by a French local historian. What I would like to know is where they were found. Also, whether any remains were found with it. The rest of my crew went down with the plane I beleive.

Can anyone help?

I have just read this thread with great interest.

it is nice to hear from a true veteran.

I am involved with Sywell Aviation Museum in Northampton and I have been asked to arrange evening talks to our members and the public.

I see you are located here in the Uk and i was wondering if you might like to do an evening talk for us on your experiences. It would be very interesting to listen to your flying experiences and all about what happened.

my email is philip.studfast@btconnect.com

kind regards

philip

[Joe Potter]

Hi All,
If the crash site was in an American area of operations, any burials were most likely by them, the problem is the US Army burial tag numbering system, the VDK have several unnamed graves in France that were re-examined in the 1950's only to find American tag numbers, for some reason the documents relevant to the tag numbers were not made available to the VDK, post war, so the dates and original places of death, and any personal info could still be in the American Archives, access to these records could possibly resolve several cases.
Joe.

[philip turland]

I had the pleasure of meeting Ernst on saturday. He told me that he buried his parachute in a hedge and marched off. He went through a town/village full of sleeping American soldiers with tanks and jeeps and nobody stopped him, not until that is he got to the other side when he was taken prisioner.

Really interesting chap to talk with.

years later he went back to try to find his parachute............but no luck. He says a french lady must have made a silk dress from it.

Ernst has agreed to do a talk for us at the sywell museum. It should be fascinating.

philip

[philip turland]

Just an update.

Ernst and his Wife came along to Sywell last night and Ernst gave a very interesting talk of his like and experiences in the Luftwaffe to a very appreciative crowd of about 100.

Later he was asked to sign several books and prints people had brought along.

They were very kind and would not accept any expenses or any charity donation. They also gave us all of the photographs they had scanned. These included Ernst with the crew he was with on the night they were lost, portraits and a super shot of Ernst in front of his JU88.

Ernst's story is one which should be heard. It is hoped he will do another talk at some point down in london.

At Sywell Aviation Museum we have American displays, British Displays but at present only a very small Luftwaffe display. We strive for balance and would like to expand our Luftwaffe display within our soon to be started extension. Ernst's life story will be presented within the new exhibition area and i would urge people to come along and see it.

A large display centred around the crash of a dornier will be incorporated also.

I would just like to thank Ernst and His Wife Carolynne once again for coming to see us.

If the research carried out on this site had not revealed "Woodpecker" as the survivor of the crash of this JU88 then we would not have met Ernst and his story would have never been revealed.

To Ernst, a veteran & a true gentleman

philip