Arado Ar234 at Neubiberg?

[ianatheling]

Hi

Just been looking at an old thread by Marc-André Haldimann and saw the link to http://www.45thdivision.org/Photo_Ga..._the_Blitz.jpg

It is a photo of an Ar234 taken at Neubiberg shortly after the war. Can anyone identify this aircraft? Apart from the missing nose glazing it looks in quite a good condition. I think that I can spot a letter C or G under wing, but that doesn't help me identify the aircraft. I think that FAGr. 1 were at Neubiberg, but as far as I am aware their Ar 234's were in Denmark?/Norway (originally FAGr. 5).

Thanks
Ian

[S Sheflin]

Ian,

For over 35 years Jim Crow and I have been documenting the Luftwaffe aircraft found at Neubiberg, and as far we know there were no Ar 234s found at there. The aircraft you posted, Ar 234 B-2 “C” or “G,” was photographed at München-Riem, along with the rare four-engined Ar 234C-3 WNr. 250006.

Steve Sheflin

[RolandF]

The letter is an obscured "G" - visible behind Fw 190D-11 "Red 4" from JV 44 (JaPo Dora 1 p.184). Additional photos can be found in WOTBC 6 p.17. Code might be T9 + GH (small T9 in white) from Kommando Sperling, eventually W.Nr. 140112, usually flown by Oblt. Horst Götz.
A further possibility might be T5 + GH of 1.(F)/100, also operating over Bavaria in April/May ´45. Source: Smith + Creek: Arado 234 Blitz

Regards

Roland

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by RolandF

A further possibility might be T5 + GH of 1.(F)/100, also operating over Bavaria in April/May ´45. Source: Smith + Creek: Arado 234 Blitz

Regards

Roland

Also on page 204 of Robert Forsyth's "JV 44, the Galland Circus" and captioned as probably from 1.(F)/100.

The coloured or outlined "G" (as I read it) is not characteristic of Kdo. Sperling which used black third and fourth code letters. That could have changed when it became 1.(F)/123 of course …

The location is right for 1.(F)/100, it was flying aircraft out of Munich in late April 1945.

[ianatheling]

Hi

Thanks Steve.
This is useful. I have seen info on the Ar 234C-3 at München-Riem. But I would still like any ideas on the Identity of the Ar234B-2?

[ianatheling]

Hi

Thanks everyone.

I think that 1.(F)100 looks good. I believe that they were flying out of Saalbach in the Austrian Alps towards the end of the war, which is near enough to München-Riem. All other Ar 234 units appear to have moved northwards (apart from Sonderkommando Sommer of course!).

[RolandF]

The coloured or outlined "G" (as I read it) is not characteristic of Kdo. Sperling which used black third and fourth code letters.

The only known photo (at least for me) of T9 + GH is with a small white Geschwader code "T9" and black individual and Staffel code "GH".
A photo of a wrecked Ar234 from 1.(F)100 is depicted in Smith + Creeks´s Ar234 book (?) without Geschwader code, white individual letter and black "H" the same size.
The Riem Arado shows a not legible small white Geschwader code, a Balkenkreuz with blackened white portions, a blackened individual letter white "G" obviously without outlines and a black Staffel letter most probably "H".
IMO this recce jet shows features of both units. Given the fact that "Kommando Sperling" was absorbed by 1.(F)/100 and the similar Geschwader codes of both units it seems quite probable to me that T9 + GH W.Nr. 1401112 might have become T5 + GH. (OTOH, during these days jets of 1.KG 51 flew with JV 44 without their codes being changed.)

My opinion is, the Riem Arado flew most probably with 1.(F)/100. Without a photo in better resolution and without the W.Nr. it cannot be verified if this particular jet has any Kommando Sperling, Hecht, Sommer, Götz history.

The obvious mistaking and confusion regarding the naming of airfields is not so important IMO. Riem and Neubiberg are 7km apart; Brunnthal further 8km. Reading the story about the JV44 surrender you see the Luftwaffe pilots changing airfields like rooms in an apartment. The airfields in "Rest-Deutschland" in May 1945 - including Austria - are only flight minutes apart. For piston-engined planes and especially for jets.

The background of the above-mentioned photo is most interesting, too. The Ar234B stand 2nd row behind the famous line-up of Luftwaffe a/c along the destroyed hangars of München-Riem.
To the left the tail of Platzschutzstaffel JV 44´s Fw 190D-11 "Red 4" ("Papageienschwarm") is visible, parked beside a Siebel204D also used by JV 44.

Btw, did anybody make a list of the Riem inventory? Beside the above-mentioned Ar234C-3 such gems like the Do335 "105", Me262 "Yellow 5", two He162 prototypes, NSGr 9 StukaDs, Ju290s etcetc. crowded this airfield at the end of the war.

Regards

Roland

(I´m quoting from memory, I´ll add the code of the Bavarian 1.(F)/100 Ar234 when I´m home having access to my reference material)

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by ianatheling

I think that 1.(F)100 looks good. I believe that they were flying out of Saalbach in the Austrian Alps towards the end of the war ...

Looking at Saalbach on Google Earth, it's not obvious where you'd put a runway, especially for a jet to take off or land. I wonder whether they abandoned their remaining aircraft at Riem and the personnel retreated to Saalbach to wait out the end of the war (as elements of NSG 9 did at Kufstein).

Originally Posted by RolandF

Given the fact that "Kommando Sperling" was absorbed by 1.(F)/100 ...

Wasn't it Kdo. Hecht that was the nucleus of 1.(F)/100 and Sperling the basis of 1.(F)/123?

[Martin388]

[quote=Nick Beale;102246]Looking at Saalbach on Google Earth, it's not obvious where you'd put a runway, especially for a jet to take off or land. I wonder whether they abandoned their remaining aircraft at Riem and the personnel retreated to Saalbach to wait out the end of the war (as elements of NSG 9 did at Kufstein).

Dear Nick,
You and RolandF are correct; 1.(F)100 was in Austria but alpine Saalbach was only a place for Stab and non flying parts to wait for the end of hostilities, or "officially" to "regroup" for the final operational chapter of the Luftwaffe in southern Germany, the Luftwaffen Division Nordalpen, for which (F)100 parts should form a mixed jet recon unit.
Actually parts of (F)100 were located at FlPl Hoersching and FlPl Zeltweg. The Hoersching airbase was actually prepared for jets as there was J2 jet fuel for serveral week of operation available for other operational reasons (to continue jet operations at Prague and Salzburg Area). Besides one of the large underground Me 262 manufacturing was established in Upper Austria (Gusen).
If Ar 234 were operational at Hoersching is not jet confirmed.
I am preparing a (2nd) book on the Luftwaffe in Austria (see www.oefh.at ) therefore these information may be regarded as relayable and confirmed by several sources.

Martin

[ianatheling]

Originally Posted by Martin388

If Ar 234 were operational at Hoersching is not jet confirmed.

There is evidence of Lt. Helmut Reinert transferring T5+BH W.Nr. 140 611 to Hörsching on the 1st April 1945. This was the aircraft that was shot down by Lt. Hilton O. Thompson in a Mustang on 25th April (Luftwaffe pilot unknown).