Messerschmitt 109 in Sweden

[Stig Jarlevik]

Hi All

Can someone please advice the WNr for the two Bf 109G that forcelanded in Sweden on November 15th, 1944?

1) Yellow 13 from 11./JG 5, pilot Gefr Georg Ecke
2) Yellow 8 from 11./JG 5, pilot Ogefr Günther Heep

Both had to jump due to loosing orientation in the bad weather.
Both aircraft became scrap metal and were not possible for positive ID by the Swedish militaries.

Cheers
Stig

[Hotspot]

Hi Stig!

Last summer I tried to find crashsite of Yellow 8, but no luck this time. I used a hint from book made by Widfelt. Have you better information or have you any pics of the wreck or wrecksite?

[Stig Jarlevik]

Sorry Hotspot

No further details. I am not looking for wrecks myself

B Rgds
Stig

[Matti Salonen]

1944-11-15, 10./JG 5, Bf 109G-6, 13690, 13 schw, Kutjaure, Absturz bei Überführungsflug Alta - Bardufoss infolge Verorientierung. Bruch 100 %.
Flugzeugführer, Gefr Ecke, Georg, Mit Fallschirm abgesprungen.
1944-11-15, 10./JG 5, Bf 109G-6, 166120, 8 gelbe, Sagelvatnet bei Tromsö, Absturz bei Überführungsflug Alta - Bardufoss infolge Verorientierung. Bruch 100 %.
Flugzeugführer, Fhj-Uffz Bittner, Oskar, verletzt, Mit Fallschirm abgesprungen.
1944-11-15, 11./JG 5, Bf 109G-2, 13648, 11 gelbe, Abisko/Stordalen, Absturz um 12.32 Uhr bei Überführungsflug Alta - Bardufoss infolge Verorientierung. Bruch 100 %.
Flugzeugführer, Ogefr Heep, Hans-Günther, Mit Fallschirm abgesprungen.

Matti

[ouidjat]

Hello Matti,

13690 a G-6?

Franck.

[Matti Salonen]

I am sure (as also you?) that it should be Bf 109G-2. In NVM it is however Bf 109G-6. This is not the only erronous info in NVM.

Matti

[Stig Jarlevik]

Kiitos Matti

Highly interesting to learn that there were THREE losses that day in the north where obviously one of them crashed on the Norwegian side of the border. Thank you very much indeed Matti.

I was checking Bo Widfeldt's book the other day and saw that none of those which came down on our side of the border were identified.

1) According to Widfelt the interview with Heep states that he himself stated he flew in yellow 08 (sic). From where comes your info that he flew in yellow 11?
2) Did the staffeln within III./JG 5 shuffle 109s between them during this period? Reason I ask is that you list 2 x 10./JG 5 pilots one in BLACK 13 and one in YELLOW 8. Widfelt in his book says Ecke also came from 10./JG 5 (while you say 11 St.). In this case I presume you are quoting from some loss list. I would be very happy if you could expand on this a little bit. :-)

Of course I can also see that someone (Sweden) not used to speak German makes mistakes and does not understand there is a third 109 involved, but also two captured pilots who were good at keeping their mouths shut and who did not disclose very much and certainly was not interested to correct any faults their captors were making.

Again really happy to get an answer to this riddle

Cheers
Stig

[Matti Salonen]

My info comes from NVMs. Because I have no other source for comparison, I cannot say, which is correct and which is not.
I don't know, whether staffeln have been shuffling 109s, but it could be possible in certain cases (shortage of aircraft or pilots in one staffel and at the same time excessive manpower or numerous aircraft in the other). This flight might have been such a situation (either delivery of additional aircraft to the Gruppe or change of the base). Perhaps somebody has better information on this.

Matti

[Stig Jarlevik]

Thanks again Matti

No worries, isn't Mombeeks final JG 5 volume supposed to be published this spring? Hopefully it can give some further details.

Cheers
Stig

[Peter]

Very interesting information, thank you.

Peter