Question about RAF 120 Coastal Command B-24D Liberator's

[Mysticpuma]

I'm just looking around for information regarding B-24D Liberators that flew (or I presume flew) with RAF 120 Coastal Command.

Of particular interest are the Group/Squadron markings but also the armament carried by them.

I'm just wondering what ordnance they would have carried (like Depth Charges or weight of Bombs) but also the Nose of the Liberator's.

Somewhere I am sure I read that the nose of the Liberator was at some point, converted to a Hard-Nose version (like the B-25 strafers were) with either cannon or 4x .50mm MG?

I am asking these questions in ignorance and would be interested if anyone would care to share knowledge of the B-24D model specifically in the Group and what weaponry/ordnance it carried.

Many thanks for any help, cheers, MP

[Icare9]

This website http://www.rafb24.com/index.php?opti...id=2&Itemid=66 is dedicated to the Liberator so you'll probably find all you need and more...
Good hunting!

[Peter Clare]

Details of Liberator IIIA LV341 served with 120 Squadron 1942 - lost 13 August 1942
Note. the aircraft was a IIIA it retained most if not all its American equipment.


B-24D-CO.

Liberator IIIA.
LV341.

Four Pratt & Whitney Twin Wasp R-1830-43.
No1-13251; No2-13252; No3-13255; No4-13254.
Automatic Machine; Browning 0.50 Calibre, (Type M2).
Martin Twin 0,50 Calibre, (Type_..A3B).
Automatic Machine; Browning 0.50 Calibre, (Type M2).
Consolidated Twin 0.50 Calibre, (Type CAC 5800. A-6).
A.S.V. 10. (SCR - 517 Microwave).

Upper Surfaces - Temperate Sea Scheme; Under Surfaces -White; Upper Surfaces Of Wings - Red and Blue Roundels; Under Surfaces Of Wings - No Markings; Fuselage - Red, White, Blue and Yellow Roundels, Registration No. (Light Slate Grey), Code Letters (Light Slate Grey); Fins -Standard Marking, (Vertical Red, White and Blue stripes). No 120 Squadron R.A.F. Coastal Command (No 15 Group)

Thumbnail: B-24D FK222 / 120 Squadron

[Mysticpuma]

Thank you Peter and Icare.

The detail on the Liberator supplied is impressive, many thanks. Do you know of the gun placement though as I wondered if the Glass nose was updated to a Hard-nose in later versions (maybe after the 'D' model) to make it more powerful in strafing attacks?

Also I have been reading the book Coastal Command 1939-45, but it doesn't really cover what type of ordnance would have been dropped from the Liberator 'D' model?

Was it bombs with delayed charges (and if so what poundage would they have been) and did they carry Depth-Charges as-well?

Thanks for the fast response, cheers, MP

[Graham Boak]

If hunting U-boats they would carry depth charges. The British anti-submarine bomb was found to be inadequate early in the war.

They did not go to a "Hard-nose" but carried the guns in a pack under the forward bombbay. Only a comparatively small number were so modified. These were the short-nose Liberator Mk.Is/LB-30B/B-24As, and I can find 11 aircraft so modified from the AM910-929 serial range. No other Mk.Is were supplied, the unit's other aircraft being Mk.IIIs (B-24D) without a cannon pack.

There was a proposed 12-gun "turret" nose based on Martin-Baker's 12-gun nose for the Havoc, but this was cancelled before conversion began.

[Mysticpuma]

Thank you Graham, your reply is very much appreciated and clears up something I remember reading but couldn't place the detail.

I can only imagine what a 12-Gun set up would have been like, but I do wonder why such a specific aircraft wasn't at some point installed with the 57mm Cannon fitted to the Mosquito's?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M00f5RxhxLY

Do you have any detail on the weight of the Depth-Charges carried and also, regarding Peter's reply below;

Automatic Machine; Browning 0.50 Calibre, (Type M2).
Martin Twin 0,50 Calibre, (Type_..A3B).
Automatic Machine; Browning 0.50 Calibre, (Type M2).
Consolidated Twin 0.50 Calibre, (Type CAC 5800. A-6).

could you explain how these would have been positioned in the aircraft, especially how many would have been in the pack mounted ahead of the Bomb-bay?

I assume there was a Twin in the Glass Nose, maybe two-twins in the pack ahead of the Bomb-Bay and then one tail mounted?

Again, sorry to be asking so-many questions but this is for a model a friend is working on (3D CGI) so detail would be of much benefit.

Cheers, Neil

[udf_00]

Some pics here :

http://www.iwmcollections.org.uk/qryPhotoImg.php

Keyword(s) : liberator
Theme : coastal command

From Coastal Command at War PP 80-81 :
8 October 1943, Liberator III - FK223 - T / 120, involved in the sinking of U-643 :
one .50cal gun firing forward and four .303in Browning in the rear turret ;
eight 250lb depth charges.

[Graham Boak]

Sorry I was not clear, the belly pack was for the 4x20mm cannon in the Mk.I, only. The B-24D without UK mods, as described above, would have had a Martin dorsal turret and a Consolidated rear. Earlier British Liberators would have had Boulton Paul 4x0.303 turrets in the tail and dorsal position, although some would only have them in the tail. Note however that the side guns are not the normal single US fit but a special offset twin 0.303 mounting unique to the Mk.III.

There was considerable variety in early British Liberators, so it is best to work from photos of the particular example you have in mind. The best source is available from Air Britain, and is The Liberator in RAF and Commonwealth Service, by James Oulton. The book includes a very good photo of FK229, 120/M, which shows it to have no dorsal turret, and the BP in the tail, with ASV radar aerials. There is a profile of FK224 120/J, with an identical fit. I would expect FK222 to be the same, but although it spent some time at Scottish Aviation this time is not specifically described as for Coastal mods, so perhaps not.

There appears to be some confusion over the Mk.IIIAs. This serial block was originally intended to cover lend-lease B-24Ds but the aircraft appear to have been production Mk.IIIs, which were armed with the Martin top turret, the BP tail turret, and these unique waist gun positions. The Coastal mods included removing the Martin turret and added ASV radar.