Bf109E W.Nr2023

[markjsheppard]

Hi all,

Having seen the photo of the tail of Bf109E 2023 on the recent ebay auction and which was sold on Friday for 262 Euros!, I thought I would ask whether any more background information is available on 2023 since it was reported in 1999 following recovery.

I have it down as an Erla Built machine built in 1940.

So possible additional information that might now be known.

What was the production block in which 2023 was manufactured.
Built as - E1 or E3?
A more accurate hand over date than 1940.
Stammkennzeichen?

Unfortunately did not win the photo but shows how just a single photo can suddenly double the amount of information/history on an airframe.

Before that photo, we know 2023 was lost with JG5 in 1942 but of course nothing from 1940. All owners seem to want the Battle of Britain history for obvious reasons.

Have been asked to do the same for 3523 - so would love to see a photo of this airframe! Nothing else has come up.

regards

Mark

[ouidjat]

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showth...highlight=2023

[markjsheppard]

Know the link - that is what prompted me. Does not answer any of the questions though!

Mark

[ouidjat]

1980 to 2063. I have no year.
E-4 and E-4/Bs
No Stkz known though 2012 is TH+CL (LEMB Stkz data)
Bert Hartmann is giving TH+CA to TH+CF and TH+CL no WNr. given. and only TH+CL as E-4 others E only without subtype indication.
Enough?
I Forgot:
http://www.stammkennzeichen.de/
and
http://www.luftwaffe-experten.org/stammkennzeichen.html
very useful links!

[ouidjat]

Dead end?

[markjsheppard]

Franck,

Not really - whole new history to add/write about.

There is no other damage listings for 2023. Overhauled and upgraded. Off to JG5.

Will ask Finnish friend if there is any listings for TH+C flying through Finnish airspace in 42.

regards

Mark

[Jim P.]

I have one other loss for this machine, though it's listed as a 109B. Could be a typo in the losses?

Bf 109B, 2023, n.n., , , , Jagdfl.Sch. 4, , , , , 26-Mar-42, Taxiing accident., , Lfl.3/Deutschland, BA-MA Signatur RL 2 III/772, Flzg.Unfälle bei Schulen und usw., p.88; BA-MA Signatur RL 2 III/782, Flzg.Unfälle bei Schulen und usw., p.146, , Fl.Pl. Fürth, 25%, H, , ,

[markjsheppard]

Hi Jim

Think it must be a typo.

TH+CX (2023?) recorded at Pori on 24th April 1942, just a month later.

Can't see 2023 being transported to factory/repaired/signed off and flown to Pori after 25% damage and only one month though perhaps I am wrong.

I am assuming it would require a factory repair.
25% to me feels more than 1 month in a factory.

It is within our time zone. Wonder what 2023 was doing in 1941.

regards

Mark

[ouidjat]

Originally Posted by markjsheppard

TH+CX (2023?) recorded at Pori on 24th April 1942, just a month later.

Hello Mark,
I do notice with pleasure that you put a question Mark after the StKz.

What surprise me in Jim comments is not the fact that the plane did flew a month later after this accident. In loss records we can find a lot of such situations; even less than a week. No...
What do surprise me that apparently the plane was used in JFS 4 before sent back to an operational unit. I thought that JFS units were the place where most of them did end their "life". But why not?
And normally after 25% damage in an operational unit the planes were sent FROM operational unit TO a JFS not the contrary. Well, at least when material was available .

Hence...
Concerning the typo:
1/ The typo does concern the WNr. not the type.
or
2/ Another situation like the one we talked about here http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=28279 ?

Regards, Franck.

[markjsheppard]

Franck

The question mark was that the Finnish records recorded the flight as TH+CX and not by W.Nr.

A month later W.Nr2023 was recorded in the loss reports as Black 9 with 8./JG5. (but not the Stkz).

To me a very good tie in.

Bf109E 3523 was recorded in the Finnish logs by W.Nr indicating it was not carrying Stkz. It replaced a Rot 6 of 5./JG5 lost a couple of days before. It was lost a month later as well. We also had a log book entry.

PM me your email and I'll send you the text). The owners want the Battle of Britian history on 3523 so hopefully another photo will come up in the next ten yers :-)

There are documents relating to repiars so would be interesting if a 25% damage listing would take 3 weeks to repair - doubt it.

regards

Mark