ID of B13+ of 8./JG27 FL on French Beach @ 8.40

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

Can anyone help ID this one? Jochen Prien has suggested an incident in October 1940 near Cap Gris Nez: Bf109E-4 with the WNr. 2794, but by then it should have had a yellow nose, and this one clearly doesn't. More likely an August, 1940, incident, in my opinion.

Who can help?

http://www.ebay.de/itm/260939479944?...#ht_731wt_1011

Regards,

[Bertrand H]

Hi Larry,

Our friend Ouidjat told two days ago on this forum that it is not Cap Gris or in this aera but Querqueville close to Cherbourg.

It is also my opinion because this print does not look like very much with Cap gris nez or blanc nez. Also same seller sold another print with a large hangar very common with the Querqueville aéronavale air base.

HTH


Bertrand

[Larry Hickey]

Bertrand,

Thanx for pointing this out. Does this indicate a possible date and pilot for this incident?

Regards,

[ChrisS]

Hi Larry

I may be barking up the wrong tree (or just barking) but could this have been a later incident, with the white 16 on the fuselage I wondered if this was a machine from Ergänzungsjagdgruppe Sud rather than 8./JG27?

Chris

[Jochen Prien]

Larry,

you are of course right that the lack of a yellow engine cowling should have alerted me, saying that this shot was taken before September 1940.

Taking a closer look at the a/c it does not only lack yellow recognition markings but also a head armour in the cockpit canopy, another hint that the photo was taken rather early in the BoB.

With that in mind and also with the relatively few recorded losses of 8./JG 27 in the early days of the BoB this makes Oblt. von Kageneck, who had to f/l on July 19th, 1940, after battle damage sustained in an aerial combat over the Isle of Wight, a very likely candidate. The damage to the a/c was reported as 35%, the location of the f/l is not known, but with III./JG 27 operating from Cherbourg during these days it would also match with the comments on the possible location.

BTW - there is no no. 16 on the fuselage - what we see are the remains of the Stammkennzeichen which look like "JG".

Any comments are welcome

Jochen Prien

[Rabe Anton]

Folks, may I enter here for a moment to say that the photo of the sw. 13 + is indeed challenging. I for one would surely like to see the incident cleared up.

Jochen Prien's keen eye and well-informed judgment seem to have provided the best answer so far, except—the aircraft in the photo is an E-1, whereas the loss entry for Ltn. Graf von Kageneck, 19.07.40, in Prien, et al., Dt. JFlg.Verbände, 4/I, p. 422, states a Bf 109E-4.

Guys, can we overcome this inconsistency?

RA

[markjsheppard]

Rabe,

It has the heavier canopy of the E-4.

Is that definitely the MG17's port hole or could the MG/FF's have been removed - albeit difficult!

regards

Mark