Working up profile packages for KG2 Do17Ms and Zs for the Polish Campaign and need some help

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

In working up the profile packages for KG2 (Stab [Do17Z], Stab I. [Do17M] and II./KG2 [Do17Z]) for the Polish Campaign, I find good photography for the Polish Campaign period of 9.39 to be rather scarce. I have a poor quality photo of what I think is U5+CA, which might cover the Gesch Stabstaffel, but I'd sure like better reference material than that. I have another rather poor photo of what appears to be U5+AH in flight, but would certainly appreciate an opportunity to improve on that. For II. Gruppe, I've got U5+HM for 4 Staffel and good shots from both sides of U5+OP from 6 Staffel after it made a force-landing during the PC.

To summarize: for the Polish Campaign period, I'm looking for photos of Do17s from Stab./KG2, the Stab and all three Staffeln of I./KG2, and the Stab II Gr. and 5 Staffel of KG2. If anyone has a close up photo of either the nose or tail of U5+HM, I'd certainly be interested. There is a W.Nr. on the tail but it's not readable in my photo.

Both on this message board, and in direct private messages, you all have given me great support on this, which is very much appreciated.

Warm regards,

[GaraiB]

Hy Larry,

I have ebay pictures from KG2, Polish campaign period.
Do17 registration number: U5+HM

Best regards

Balazs

[Larry Hickey]

Hello Balazs,

Thanks for sending these. This may help us put a crew with the a/c. The four men appear by their belt buckles to all be enlisted men. Does anyone have any information from KG2 records (perhaps losses) that would give full names, ranks and crew positions from these names? Two of them have specialist badges, of which one must be the pilot and the other probably the observer.

W.Nr. on the tail still not readable.

Great work!

Regards,

[steve sheridan]

Hi Larry i have U5+HM 30% damaged in a forced landing at Bartenstein, East Prussia 3.9.39, following engine trouble.

Ff .Uffz Karl Schiwek,
Bo. Heilmann,
Bf. Uffz Heinrich Suschka,
Bm. Johannes Ottlik all recorded unhurt.

Sorry no christian name for Heilmann.

The same crew appears again 10.5.40 in U5+HM albeit without Heilmann,
Crash landing following combat with No73Sq Hurricanes. The details will be in The Battle of France Then And Now book.

Best regs,
Steve.

[Peter D Evans]

"Der Luftkrieg in Europe, Die Operativen Einsatz des Kampfgeschwaders 2 - Teil 1" by U.Balke [Bernard & Graefe Verlag, 1989] has the full crew for the 10.05.1940 loss of the Do17Z U5+HM as:

FF: Uffz Karl Schiwek
BO: Uffz.Heinz Fischer
BF: Uffz.Heinrich Suschka
BM: Fw. Johannes Ottlik

Cheers
Peter D Evans
LEMB Administrator

[Larry Hickey]

Steve and Peter,

Thanks for your inputs. It turns out that I did have this info in the EoE Luftwaffe Loss DB. Our holdings on these two incidents:

"3 September 1939: 4./KG2 Dornier Do17Z. Damaged by AA fire during attack on fortifications south of Mlawa 5.20 p.m. and forced-landed at Bartenstein airfield following engine failure. (Ff) Uffz Karl Schiwek, (Beo) Uffz [ ] Heilmann, (Bf) Uffz Heinrich Suschka, and (Bs) Fw Johannes Ottlik unhurt. Aircraft U5+HM 30% damaged but repairable.

10 May 1940:4./KG2 Dornier Do17Z. Crashlanded at Ober-Esch (Germany) at 5.50 a.m. badly damaged by flak and Hurricanes over Thionville during sortie to attack Basse Yutz airfield near Diedenhofen airfield 4.30 a.m. Possibly that attacked by P/O Mould of No.1 Squadron. FF Uffz Karl Schiweck, and BF Uffz Heinrich Suschka both slightly wounded, BO Uffz Heinz Fischer believed unhurt. BM Fw Johannes Ottlik baled out over Chatel-Chéhéry and captured unhurt later released. Aircraft U5+HM 100% write-off. (Note: PC Comment: I think it’s very difficult to figure who shot planes of II/KG 2 and III/KG 3 down. I have the impression that 1 Sqn Capt Hanks, Lt Lewis, Lt Mould, 73 Sqn Kain and 87 Sqn F/O Mitchel were involved)."

What remains to be done is to locate the full name of Uffz [ ] Heilmann, and the W.Nr. of the a/c in the 3 Sept. 1939 incident (which may be the same for both). I'm attaching an enlargement photo of the tail of this a/c, which shows the W.Nr., which may begin with a "3." Can someone who is a W.Nr. expert on early Do17Zs interpret what the full W.Nr. is? I'm assuming that this a/c carries a red II Gruppe diagonal band on the nose, as was typical for the unit at that time, but the prop spinner in the photo puzzles me. It may be red (II Gr) with a white (4 Sta) tip, but the main color looks too light to be red to me. Is there any other reasonable interpretation of what that color would be?

You've all been great help here which is much appreciated.

Regards,

[ChrisS]

Hi Larry
These may help:

[ChrisS]

and these: