Shot Down Me 109?

[NUPPOL]

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/foru...c=122211&st=20

[ouidjat]

This one is not a new picture but thanks again for the time you did past, and the links you gave us.

Cheers, Franck.

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Hallo Nuppol,

That's what can be said according to the photo:

Bf 109 G-6 or G-14 W.Nr. unknown "Rote 10", III./JG 3, France, Summer 1944.

Any addition s to when and where most welcome;-))

Cheers
Marc

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by Marc-André Haldimann

Bf 109 G-6 or G-14 W.Nr. unknown "Rote 10", III./JG 3, France, Summer 1944.

Any addition s to when and where most welcome;-))

Cheers
Marc

More likely it's a Bf 109 G-6 of IV./JG 3 in Italy in late 1943.

Most of the Bf 109s with the red spot and “double wave” marking were found in Lecce/San Donato but another in Cassano (probably Punta Cassano, SE of Lecce) also carried the emblem of JG 3 “Udet.” The only JG 3 Gruppe to see service in the Italian campaign (as far as I remember) was the IV. The red spot is mentioned on aircraft with black tactical numbers—i.e. those of 11./JG 3—but not the ones with white or yellow numbers (10. and 12. Staffeln).

The machine at Cassano was Bf 109 G-6/trop. W.Nr. 18724, Black 13 + red spot on white band. It carried the JG 3 Crest and its St.Kz. was CN+VA.

Other aircraft are described as having the red spot on the white band and then the "wave" Gruppe marking. I don't currently have a matching wreck report for black 10, only a "10" (no colour stated) dismantled and looted at Foggia, this was 18645 and carried the wave marking but no mention of a band, crest or red spot.

[ouidjat]

Thank you Marc and Nick...

[ouidjat]

Originally Posted by Nick Beale

More likely it's a Bf 109 G-6 of IV./JG 3 in Italy in late 1943.

Most of the Bf 109s with the red spot and “double wave” marking were found in Lecce/San Donato but another in Cassano (probably Punta Cassano, SE of Lecce) also carried the emblem of JG 3 “Udet.” The only JG 3 Gruppe to see service in the Italian campaign (as far as I remember) was the IV. The red spot is mentioned on aircraft with black tactical numbers—i.e. those of 11./JG 3—but not the ones with white or yellow numbers (10. and 12. Staffeln).

The machine at Cassano was Bf 109 G-6/trop. W.Nr. 18724, Black 13 + red spot on white band. It carried the JG 3 Crest and its St.Kz. was CN+VA.

Other aircraft are described as having the red spot on the white band and then the "wave" Gruppe marking. I don't currently have a matching wreck report for black 10, only a "10" (no colour stated) dismantled and looted at Foggia, this was 18645 and carried the wave marking but no mention of a band, crest or red spot.

Hi Guys, Hi Nick, Hi Marc,

Marc did put two others photographies concerning that "Red Doted unit":
One new http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...in/photostream
One old (well let's say a double ... see my comment under)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...in/photostream

and a well known one http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...in/photostream

My concern has to do with that last one, more particularly with Marc comment: "Notice the red dot under the JG 3 emblem, sign for the II Gruppe of this unit."

Is there a relation between that II./JG 3 red dot and the previous???
I mean, does this red dot under emblem really belong to II./JG 3??

Thanks for your answers.

Regards, Franck.

[Nick Beale]

"Black 3" is probably Me 109 G-6 W.Nr. 18512, Black 3 + red spot and “wave.” This was found at Foggia Main and was described as "scrap
", its Stammkennzeichen was SI+UY.

Note that this one has a white outline to its tactical number whereas Black 10, WNr. 18733, didn't. (Incidentally, Black 10 was posted missing near Capua on 06.09.43, along with its pilot Ltn. Hans-Joachim
 Schroth. The pilot evidently survived this time but was killed on 10 February 1944 at Vromshoop in the Netherlands, during an action against the 8th AF. His body was found on the 13th).

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Nick,

Many thanks for your thorough analysis; it is much appreciated!
Marc

[Nick Beale]

I think I've found the right aircraft now. It was found at Pietravairano Caserta. By the time the report was compiled, it was described as "crashed, burnt, looted."

Bf 109 G-6, W.Nr. 18733.
Markings on fuselage "10 + red dot on white band followed by white"

The last word is missing but I'd guess it was intended to be a drawing of the wave marking.

The engine was DB 605 No. 01100200


(Source: National Archives AIR40/2160)

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Hooray!!!

Great job Nick, another 109 get's it W.Nr. back... Still some 20'000+ waiting for that;-))

Joke apart, many thanks again
Sincerely
Marc