Abschussmeldung - Film

[Henry Jones]

Hi,

can anyone help me to find the "Abschussmeldung" for the P-51 #43-6451 through Uffz. Franz Neujahr at 16th March 1944.

Refering to http://www.cieldegloire.com/jg_003h.php it is on following Film
Film C. 2025/I Anerk: Nr.237

Thank you,
best regards
Alex

[Larry deZeng]

.......can anyone help me to find the "Abschussmeldung" for the P-51 #43-6451 through Uffz. Franz Neujahr at 16th March 1944.

Do you mean the single line entry that give the type, altitude, date and time, location, unit and name of pilot making the claim? If not, then what form would you expect the Meldung to be in? Perhaps a detailed, full-page report of the claim that describes the encounter with the names and statements of witnesses?

[Henry Jones]

Hi Larry,

I only see once a "Abschussmeldung", a sheet of paper with the date, aircraft typ, crash site, witnesses ... signed by the pilot who claimed the shot. There were also a "Gefechtsbericht" (fighting report) and a "Luftzeugenbericht" (air witness report) about the combat and the claim. So i thought there is a similar Meldung for the shot down of Dempseys P51 through Neujahr.

Could you help me here? I'm very sorry if my request sounds like a bit unfamiliar. Luftwaffe and Air Force are not my specialized topic.
I don't know which typs of reports are available for Luftwaffe claims, so I'm interested in all documents about this fight.

Thank you
Alex

[Larry deZeng]

Originally Posted by Henry Jones

Hi Larry,
I only see once a "Abschussmeldung", a sheet of paper with the date, aircraft typ, crash site, witnesses ... signed by the pilot who claimed the shot. There were also a "Gefechtsbericht" (fighting report) and a "Luftzeugenbericht" (air witness report) about the combat and the claim. So i thought there is a similar Meldung for the shot down of Dempseys P51 through Neujahr.
Could you help me here? I'm very sorry if my request sounds like a bit unfamiliar. Luftwaffe and Air Force are not my specialized topic.
I don't know which typs of reports are available for Luftwaffe claims, so I'm interested in all documents about this fight.
Thank you
Alex

Alex - It sounded to me like you wanted the German report(s). You certain know exactly what they are, as you demonstrate above. The "Film C. 2025/I Anerk: Nr.237" is the single line entry that comes from daily log sheets maintained by one of the branches within the Luftwaffenpersonalamt in Berlin. Very, very few of the full-page, detailed Abschußmeldungen that I mentioned survived the war. Every one would like to get their hands on these, but only a few of them have been found.

Dragondog's information is from the American side but that is all that you will probably be able to find that provides any detail.

L.

[Henry Jones]

Larry, thank you for the further information. I thought that this reports are preserved in a archive, so it is very annoying to hear that this reports were destroyed through war impact.

But now I knew what kind of information are available. So I think this thread can be closed.

Thank you for your help,
Alex

[drgondog]

Originally Posted by Henry Jones

Hi,

can anyone help me to find the "Abschussmeldung" for the P-51 #43-6451 through Uffz. Franz Neujahr at 16th March 1944.

Refering to http://www.cieldegloire.com/jg_003h.php it is on following Film
Film C. 2025/I Anerk: Nr.237

Thank you,
best regards
Alex

F/O Don Dempsey's engine stopped when he couldn't switch from external to internal fuel tanks - bailed out in sight of his leader and finished the war as POW. Macr 3008 P-51B 43-6451 GQ-L. 354th FG.

In other words he wasn't shot at or shot down, so strange victory credit.

[Henry Jones]

Oh, you are absolutly right! But could it be possible that Neujahr claimed that "Victory" although Dempseys plane crashed in cause of failure of his engine? Or is this Abschuss from Neujahr at 16th March 1944 for an other aircraft?

Regards,
Alex

[drgondog]

In all, there were six Mustangs lost, five due to enemy air action, one to flak.
4Fg -1 (flak)
354FG -1
355FG -2
357FG -2

Most of the encounters were from Ulm to Munich with Augsburg as the axis.

Larry is correct regarding the paucity of LW encounter reports. Those in existance are largely due to individuals keeping their records. What I gave you was from US Macr's.

[Henry Jones]

Hi,

on my list there is a P-51 also lost on the 16th March, but I have no further information about that. No name, no serial number, no unit. The only information that I have that the plane should be crashed in Donzdorf near Geislingen.

Is it be possible that this is the same as Dempseys one? The places are very close. Or is it another plane from the 8th USAAF?
I see on another forum, that it could be 1Lt. Ernest P. Skilton shot down near Gussenstadt? Air Craft Nr. P-51 43-6652.
Are there further information about him, IDPF ...?

Alex

[drgondog]

Skilton was hit by flak chasing an me 110 on the deck near Gussenstadt. KIA. 336FS/4th FG