Losses of JG 4 on 20th November 1944

[Kaczmarek]

Dear gents,

can anyone tell me more detailed informations about the three losses of JG 4 from 20th November 1944. Especially the causes and crashplaces. I know the informations from the Mombeek book. I hope for more details.

Rgds,
Kaczmarek

[Kaczmarek]

Dear gents,

Perhaps does anybody have the NVM of this day ?

Rgds,
Kaczmarek

[Kaczmarek]

Hello,

does nobody really have further informations ?

Rgds,
Kaczmarek

[Matti Salonen]

1944-11-20, Stab III/JG 4, Bf 109K-4, 330370, 2 rote, Luftkampf. Bruch 100 %.
Flugzeugführer Gefr Kindl, Helmut, +
1944-11-20, 11./JG 4, Bf 109G-14, 781178, 8 gelbe, Rothenschirmbach, 7 km südlich Eisleben, Luftkampf. Bruch ? %.
Flugzeugführer Uffz Schneider, Günther, +
1944-11-20, 11./JG 4, Bf 109K-4, 330360, Luftkampf. Bruch ? %.
Flugzeugführer Fhr Westphal, Erhard, +

Matti

[Kaczmarek]

@ Matti,

Many thanks for your additional informations.

Rgds,
Kaczmarek

[Heuser]

Gentlemen,

sure about the 20th for these losses? There were heavy aerial combats on 21st in this area, and according to the VdK-database Kindl is listed als killed on this day.

Further I was not able to find any matching US-claim for the 20th.

Regards,

Heuser

[ouidjat]

Hi Guys,

Matti I have another loss for WNr.781178:
22/08/1944; 12./JG 76, Blaue 7; Vernon-Evreux; Bruch 100%; Due to Flak or enemy fighters. Pilot Fw. Gutmann, Joachim, Missing.

[RolandF]

Got the same double report.
Strange fact is, that Joachim Gutmann seems to be a Bf110G-2 pilot from 8./ZG 26, but with completely different loss data (22 Dec 1943) for his Bf 110. JG 76 is reported to have been formed from ZG 1 and ZG 76, the 12.Staffel being formed completely new. Same person?
Otoh the WNr contains twice "78" and "1". Such a constellation is always reason for frequently occurring typoes as you will recognize.
Maybe one of the two losses carried the WNr 781187

Regards

Roland

[Matti Salonen]

I have the same info on 12./JG 76 aircraft. Based on NVMs I cannot say, which is correct. Unfortunately duplicate numbers are reported quite often. For example in 781xxx-783xxx we can find at least the following destroyed twice: 781178, 781229, 782136 and 782146.
Roland's educated guess of 781187 is possible, because 781189 was of 9./JG 76.

NVMs confirm same person on 22 Dec 1943 and 22 Aug 1944.

Matti

Does anyone here know any info on the last mission of Major Hans Leickhardt
of the Luftwaffe Nightfighters.
Trying to find out the aircraft he was flying and his co-pilot, assuming it was a
two-man cockpit type aircraft. 1945.
Thanks....essexlad.