02Apr45 USAAF & VVS dogfight

[Nokose]

On 02 Apr 1945 over "Trnava", Czechoslovakia a Yak 1 or 9 (not sure yet) of the 513 IAP flown by Aleksandr Grigor'vich Grigor'ev was shot down and killed by an USAAF fighter. Does anyone have and idea who made a claim that day?

[Laurent Rizzotti]

My USAAF claims lists show claims this day for 1st, 325th, 350th, 354th and 367th FG.

The last two were parts of Ninth Air Force and flew this day over Germany, 350th FG scored well against ANR Bf 109s over Italy, and so the claims with possible location over Czechoslavkia were done by 1st and 325th FG.

The 325th FG actually fought over Czechoslovakia, as shown by the 318th FS report for this day:
http://www.wingman1945.com/images/rcbsortie281.jpg

All 325th FG claims were made by 318th FS and are listed above. The only claim by 1st FG was claimed by 1st Lt Samuel H Lyons of 27th FS, but I have no details.

But it is also possible that the US pilot realized he had shot down a Soviet fighter, and in this case a claim would not be filled.

Edited: I checked the listing of Luftwaffe claims done by Jim P, and found only 6 victories claims by German pilots: five Austers by JG 27 and JG 53 on the Western front, and a Pe-2 by Uffz. Friedrich-Wilhelm Neumann of Stab I./JG 53 (no other details for this claim).

[Nokose]

Thanks Laurent. I checked "Stars & Bars" by Frank Olynyk which has Major Norman Leroy McDonald's 2 Bf 109 for the 02 April 45 as being 10 miles W. of Wiener-Neustadt, Austria. I have nothing on 1st Lt. A.E. Amedro's claim for a "Me 109". With 4 P-51 not returning from the mission it might be interesting about the circumstances of their loss and what the VVS had on this encounter.

[HGabor]

5 VA, 331 IAD, 513 IAP flight-leader ст.л-т Григорьев Александр Григорьевич (1921-1945.04.02.) was lost in his Yakovlev Yak-9T fighter, S/N: 1915333, Engine No.: 351-43. (Not a Yak-1b!) Their flight of 4 Yak-9s covered an IL-2 flight which fired some American fighters (soviet report says 10-12 twin boom planes, so P-38s, not P-51s!) but they stopped when they realized their mistake. Grigorev went missing in the Trnava area, not clear what had happened to him. Moscow time 13:05, - 11:05 local time.

Briefly:

"13:05 4 Як вед Григорьев впосле удара Ил-2 по цели атакованы 10-12 самолетоами противника. Самолеты противника были двухфюзеляжные, двухмоторные, до этого не встречавшиеся. Воздушный бой в р-не Трнава потерян из виду."

Cheers,

Gabor

[Nokose]

Thanks Gabor. Two Russian sites had the 513 IAP as equiped with Yak-1's and Yak-9's for that period. Wonder if Grigorev went down during the exchange or if the P-51's continued the exchage after the Yaks had stopped. The answer I guess might be in the 318 FS reports.

[HGabor]

Correct. 513 IAP flew Yak-9D, Yak-9T, Yak-9M, Yak-1B fighter versions and some Po-2 messenger planes. (Novosibirsk 153. factory produced Yak-9M fighters after the 25th batch. Grigorev's plane was the 33rd plane of the 19th batch, so it was still a Yak-9T = 19-(153)-33 = 1915333) His plane had tactical number white 33. (the 5 VA, 331 IAD regiments usually marked their planes with the plane ID part of their AC serial number, which -in this case- was 33. It was also listed in the January 14, 1945 plane list (mechanical report) of the 513rd regiment.)

Gabor

[Frank Olynyk]

The only P-38 claims by the USAAF in the ETO or the MTO is a Me-109 by 1st/Lt Samuel H Lyons between 1520 and 1530, and a Me-109 probable by 1st/Lt Thomas J Newell at 1530. Both are listed as vicinity of Eggenburg, 48-33N, 15-45E. Eggenburg is in NE Austria, near the Czech border; and the time doesn't match the 11:05 local time given in Gabor's post. So possibly the combat was not reported.

Enjoy!

Frank.

[Nokose]

I read on a Russian site that it was an American fighter but this could I guess also be a quick "strike" and disappear by the Luftwaffe leaving the American fighters to get the blame. A "Hartmann" hit and run type incident.

[HGabor]

No. Those were clearly American P-38s, not mysterious German fighters. Peter Kassak said contacted 14th FG pilot who participated the incident, but nobody hit anyone. He did not even fire a shot. Soviet report also says Grigoriev disappeared, so nobody knows exactly what had happened to him. One of the 34 (14 FG) P-38 pilots sweep the Vienna area was Lt. Joe Onesty who was almost hit by one of the Yaks ("MiGs"). Story is also written in John W. Lambert: The 14th Fighter Group in World War II., p.126.

Gabor

[Nokose]

Thank You all for the answers. I guess this loss will remain a mystery for now.