.50 calibre rounds

[Richard T. Eger]

Dear All,

This may sound like a dumb question, but Allied armament is far, far and away not my specialty. So, here goes.

An acquaintance has told me that he found .50 calibre spent rounds at Scheppach south of the Autobahn across from the Me 262 forest production facility known as Kuno I. Now, this area was heavily camouflages and there were no air attacks to the facility on the north side of the Autobahn, so the question arises as to why the south side, likely also camouflaged, might have been hit with such rounds.

The Autobahn to the west of the production facility was straight and used for takeoff, the center section having been paved over. Perhaps the rounds came from Allied aircraft straffing Me 262's on the Autobahn. But, the thought occurred to me that the rounds could have come from Allied land forces as they captured the area. If so, my question is whether any .50 calibre weapons were used by ground forces? If so, hand held, mounted on vehicles, or what?

Regards,
Richard

[Larry deZeng]

Dr. R.T. Eger wrote in part:

If so, my question is whether any .50 calibre weapons were used by ground forces? If so, hand held, mounted on vehicles, or what?

Nearly all U.S. tanks, TDs and half-tracks had Ma Deuces as well as many deuce-and-a-half trucks, the latter having a swivel ring above the cab where the .50 was mounted. Some jeeps had a .50 too, but more often it was a.30. Generally, the line infantry advancing on foot had .30s rather than .50s.

L.

[RSwank]

There was also the Quad 50, used as both as an anti-aircraft weapon and against ground targets.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M45_Quadmount

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4Y9hsbQC0k

[Horst Weber]

Originally Posted by Richard T. Eger

Dear All,

This may sound like a dumb question, but Allied armament is far, far and away not my specialty. So, here goes.

An acquaintance has told me that he found .50 calibre spent rounds at Scheppach south of the Autobahn across from the Me 262 forest production facility known as Kuno I. Now, this area was heavily camouflages and there were no air attacks to the facility on the north side of the Autobahn, so the question arises as to why the south side, likely also camouflaged, might have been hit with such rounds.

The Autobahn to the west of the production facility was straight and used for takeoff, the center section having been paved over. Perhaps the rounds came from Allied aircraft straffing Me 262's on the Autobahn. But, the thought occurred to me that the rounds could have come from Allied land forces as they captured the area. If so, my question is whether any .50 calibre weapons were used by ground forces? If so, hand held, mounted on vehicles, or what?

Regards,
Richard

Good evening Richard !

What exactly did your acquaintance notice there:
- .50 cal bullets
- .50 cal shells
- both, shells and bullets in an even fired condition , or
- not fired .50 cal ammo

I think, if the condition of his findings are more clear, a more precise answer can be given.

Best wishes !

Horst Weber

[Richard T. Eger]

Dear All,

Thank you for the information, which seems to confirm what my acquaintance found could have been from ground fire, not straffing aircraft. Perhaps, as the U.S. Army motored down the Autobahn, they encountered enemy fire.

The image he sent to me shows 12 bullets and 2 shells.

Regards,
Richard

[RSwank]

Are there any colors on the bullet tips? Are there any letters/markings on the shell casings? Do the bullets appear to be armor piercing? Here is a link which gives some more info on the types of bullets.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...nitions/50.htm

[Richard T. Eger]

Dear RSwank,

There are definitely 2 bullets with a black tip and 1 bullet with a light blue tip. Five appear to be orange (possibly rust of steel jackets) and 2 seem to be more olive in color with a speckling of green, suggesting perhaps brass jackets. These 2 also have a single ring on the rear, possibly green or blue green. Three have double rings. Two look like they had exploded or, at the least, had hit the proverbial immovable object. In addition to these 2, a third is also missing its tip, but there isn't enough there to tell whether it had exploded.

If anyone wants to see the photo, please send me a PM with your e-mail address and I'll send it to you. I'm still not conversant about posting images.

Regards,
Richard

[John Beaman]

Richard:

THX. The black tip means armor piercing. Having witnessed firing these .50 caliper rounds, I can say they are very effective: through concrete block walls, mud hut walls, and other "stuff". I have fired M-1 Garand 30.06 armor piercing and they are very effective rounds!--shattering a 6 inch granite stone!

Follow up from an friend who commanded a tank platoon with those .50 guns. He says, blue is incendiary, red/maroon/orange is tracer. Aluminum tip or red ring is AP incendiary.

[Larry deZeng]

I spent my first two Army years in the Ordnance Corps and was assigned as a company armorer for a couple of months. I had a dozen 'fifties to maintain in the armory and fired the weapon a number of times, including on a range near Bad Kreuznach where a bunch of old junked cars and other vehicles had been towed for use as targets. The range was about 1,000 meters. In a word: mincemeat. The linked ammo was arranged 1 incendiary, 1 AP, 1 HE, 1 AP, 1 HE and then repeated.

L.

[RSwank]

If I understand your descriptions correctly, you appear to have a mixture of AP (black tip), possibly incendiary with the blue tip and perhaps regular ball (no colored tips but the bullets appear to be orange or olive in color). You can click on the various images in the link I gave to get larger views of the various types. The fact that there seems to be regular ball type bullets suggests to me they were all "ground" fired as I don't think aircraft carried regular ball ammunition, it was mostly AP, with a mixture of tracers and possibly incendiary. (Perhaps some experts on fighter carried ammunition can comment on that point).